Written By Cigarettes & Red Vines
November 17th, 2003
This interview is based on questions submitted by the xixax.com message board. Paul's responses are unedited.
1. Let's talk about Couch. Was it shot on 16mm? Furthermore, was it shot on a Bolex? Tell me about the location? Lots of people have been asking.
The illustrious "couch" was shot in 35mm with a panavision camera and primo lenses at a Levitz in Chatsworth, California. can't remember what stock we used, my short term memory is shot at that moment. The location was simple - it may only appear un-simple because of the bizzare backing we put up in the middle of the store......did i forget to mention "couch" is my favorite thing ever ever ever ever?
2. The "Solar Flares" or "Lens Flares" in PDL appear at remarkably timed moments throughout the film. Were all these intentional down to the specific moment? Please explain.
they were specific for the most part. hitting on a line or a moment, etc. some just happened because the Sun wanted to contribute something nice....
There really is no direction you can give to the Sun....for instance, when Lena meets Barry - the Sun directed those lens flares and I thought he/she did a wonderful job....
3. Finish these sentences...:
You might be surprised to learn that I can...
tie my own shoes.
One thing I can't live without is... (refrain from saying movies, music, television, etc.)
swimming in the sea, baseball playoffs. my Nikon Cool Pix 5000. Apple.
I don't get it. They can put a man on the moon, but they can't...
fuck, that's a long, long list. How much time do you have? They can put a man on the moon but they can't clean their own back yard. There's a great song by Gil Scott Heron that answers that question better than I ever could called, "Whitey's On The Moon."
I'm not obsessive-compusive, but I always have to...
?????? But I am, you see!
Besides "A warm gun," Happiness is...
a cold and unloaded one.
My favorite meal is...
a happy one. Breakfast! eggs, any style. w/hot sauce (chilula) iced tea.
4. What's going on with the largo/jon brion collaborations? i see largo the site still has a spot reserved for pta movies coming soon...???
great question. not so hard to say. I have hours of stuff that I shot just for the hell of it - and once I get my head from around my ass, we'll probably just throw them up there - they just need to be found amongst many unlabled and half-shot tapes. There's also another thing we did as a test a few years back with Fiona, sweet elliot Smith, the great Brad Meldau and Jon at Cello Studios - just a test on shooting three cameras (video) and seeing if we could capture something - and that may soon find a home somewhere...more soon on that...it's all nice stuff, very simple, straightforward, no flashy pants - just music. it was a (relatively) successful test and if we tried something similar again, it might be more flash and pants and last waltz-stop making sense style....if these things ever make it out, look for a bizarre and wonderful bette midler cameo! ha!
5. Name a recent film that you thought was amazing, and why do you consider it that way.
lost in translation, lost in translation, lost in translation! enough said, it speaks for itself. mystic river. noi albinoi.
6. Andy Serkis has expressed a strong interest in working with you. What did you think of his work on the character Gollum in Lord of the Rings, and what are your feelings about the effect that computer generated special effects are having on cinema?
i love the lord of the rings and i can't wait to see the final chapter. i have nothing against computer generated effects. it's just like anything else: use 'em right and they work - otherwise i should just go home and stick my dick in a nintendo. (quentin's line...) The gollum/andy serkis stuff is truly wonderful and the perfect example of effects done well...praise Peter Jackson. I could never have the patience to do what he's done....a computer made frogs fall and lots of other sweet things, for me so I like them.
7. How many drafts do you usually write for each screenplay?
about 1,000,000,000,000 and 3 or 4 maybe 5.....but then again, I keep writing all the way through the making of the movie. it never really stops. once in a great while something remains completely untouched from the time it comes out of me to the time it makes the street.
8. Lot of people stand by the theory that Lena was an alien from outer space based on a few things you said and all the lunar footage shown on TV. Thoughts?
I stand by that. Have you ever met anyone as lovely as Emily Watson that WASN'T from outer space?
9. You've mentioned that you've been working on an adventure type film for awhile. Can you give us a bit more info? Any timelines on when you might finish up and begin filming?
errr, um, shuffle, scuffle........maybe sooner than you think.
10. Tell me about your relationship with Quentin. How did you meet? Do you spend much time together. Talk about your trip to the Kill Bill set and your thoughts on the film?
quentin and i were both raised by wolves in california and we reunited in 1997 through a mutual friend. I love him and i love his work. kill bill was one helluva friday night movie and i suppose we all have to wait for saturday night to really make sense of what the hell is going on....we spend as much time together as we should.....just enough. My trip to China to visit him was mostly about making sure that the extascy was good enough for him to try....seeing the great wall, visiting all the landmarks, sleeping in a nice hotel, watching him kill people, getting blood all over me and helping spend Miramax's money....
11. Have you seen the new DVD collection of short films and music videos by Spike Jonze, Chris Cunningham and Michel Gondry. Any chance in hell you'd collect your stuff?
i haven't seen although i was given the chris cunningham dvd - can't wait to watch, they are all great. i don't have the collection of b-sides that those guys do - maybe someday when there's more stuff....don't wait for it, I'll stick to my day job for now....
11. How about some new DVD Picks.
that's two number 11's!!!!
Dancer In The Dark - I know it's obvious, but this remains the best movie in the last 5 years. Hands down. No question.
You Can Count On Me - I was really late seeing this movie and I think it's just superb and simple and sweet.
The Shooting/Ride In The Whirlwind - must see low budget westerns.
The Life Of Mammals - BBC series.
Day Of Wrath - Carl Dryer DVD box set from Criterion.
Monday, 17 November 2003
Saturday, 23 August 2003
Blossoms & Blood (2003)
A 12 minute assemblage of various deleted bits and alternate takes from "Punch-Drunk Love". Originally included on the DVD.
Thursday, 31 July 2003
Interview: "Seeing Things From Different Angles"
Slovenian director Mitja Okorn interviews American director
Paul Thomas Anderson at the Motovun Film Festival, Croatia
Okorn:
I am sorry… I must say that I hate to talk to you and I wouldn't like to talk to you because I have seen your films and I don't understand why you made those films and I don't understand why I didn't made those films. And another reason why I don’t see sense to taking to you is that everything that I won’t to know about your movies can be seen in your movies because they are so transparent.
Anderson:
Well that is very nice of you to say. I can help you. Yea. Well that’s nice that you see that they are transparent. I think that’s what they should be.
We will talk about directing. And let’s begin with the first take of your 2nd feature film Boogie Nights. The opening scene. And from that scene we can get to know you better. Well and from that take we can get the first message about the film and first message from Paul Thomas Anderson to the whole world. And that message is: I CAN DIRECT!!! Do you remember the scene and how did you do it. With a steady cam?
Yeah it was with a steady cam. And steady cam operator was standing on the top of the crane and then the crane came down where he step off the crane and ran furiously down the street and follow the car and follow them into the club. This scene was really fun to do. I like doing shots like this in my movies – they are always fun to do. But I saw Russian Ark this morning actually which is….
…A little but longer…
…yeah and makes this scene and the whole movie look like a little student movie, really. But I think what is so nice about it that it’s really nice for actors you know because usually in the movies a scene is pieced together from all these different shots and I think that’s really hard for actors to kind of keep remembering in their minds where they might be. So it’s something really nice for actors when it’s all kind of a one continuous thing and they can really act and kind of do their job and they don’t have to think so much.
But they have to think where they have to be in a certain moment.
Yeah. But that’s only one job in comparison with shooting all these pieces of one scene over and over again from all these different angles. And it’s also a lot of fun you know. It kind of makes the entire crew and everybody: “You should know what you are going after; you should know when you go to work that day that there is nothing better than the feeling that we trying to get something difficult made today.” And everybody is working towards getting that done. And when you get it there’s that kind of incomparable feeling of just joy. You did it…You got it! That’s the great thing about making the movies.
Besides from being confident and skillful and besides telling us that you can direct there is a very good point at the beginning of the movie because all characters of Boogie Night are there in this one take sequence and this sequence ends with a cut and after this cut you have a guy, the guy with a big cock who is going to become a born hero and change the lives of all those guys who were shown in these one shot sequence.
Well yeah! You don’t want to do something just to show off usually. Well sometimes you do. But most of the times you get caught pretty easily and I think audiences will kind of go like:
Why did you do that? That was just showing off? But if you can show off and this also kind of helps progress the story along and maybe in a really interesting way you can introduce the characters. Then that’s good – you can’t get…just don’t get caught.
Let’s get back to technicalities which are interesting. You shot on real location. What did your producer say to you when you told him that you are going to start this scene in the night, so you are obliged to do everything in the night which is more expensive and stuff?
Well there was no problem because I have a relationship with my producer that’s not argumentative. It’s more…really supportive. We argue quite a lot but it was always just sort of very obvious that it should take place at night and it’s going to be hard to film but at the end rewarding. So he was all right with it.
What about steady cam operator? Is he also a friend…After you made that shot?
Well he wasn’t after but he was before. He’s a very “bad” guy. He’s a really a big British guy. But we survived.
Did you shoot that scene in the first day of shooting?
No, no, no! There’s an old theory you know, that you should just start out in the first couple of days with something easy, just so you can get your groove on. This was maybe about 2 or 3 weeks in. But we have been planning it for like a month or something like that. A great thing I’ve learned about something like this or whenever you are going to make movies there can not be enough planning. You know there’s never enough planning. It’s always the best way to go about it. We just go out to that street and look at it and kind of dream it up and talk about it and then a week later come back with new ideas and kind of change the older ideas. It’s just a great thing when we go on and attack a movie to prepare as much as we possible can. So I think that’s what helped us to be able to do it, especially for the money that we had and the time that we had. Because we ended up doing it all in one night. We maybe just did it about 20 maybe 25 times but, you know, that was all we had time for you know. Because sun went down at 19.00, 19.30, 20.00 O’clock…
…And the night was yours…
…And the night was ours. But not really because you can’t really start shooting at 7, 7.30, 8 O’clock. It has just gotten dark enough so you can see what lights actually look like and than you have to adjust them. But having all the time to prepare made it really, really easy – relatively easy actually.
Well seeing this whole film, this take doesn’t say that this is the way of your writing or film making because you are changing it all the time. You have takes like this and then you suddenly have some other scenes that are quickly cut. Cut, cut, cut. And then your specialty is also to make a long statically punctual provocative scenes and takes. So definitely seen your three films there is no system to all three of them except that they are all very good and meaningful. Do you relay on your intuition very much when deciding and picking up solutions. How do you do it? From Imagining to realization?
Well……….eee……..I have to keep two different notebooks. When I am writing the screenplay many times I will visualize what the scene might look like and I will be writing the screenplay, but I will try to keep the screenplay as clear of any kind of scriptage stuff as possible. I would just try to keep it on the level: where is the location – Inside or outside, what the characters will say. Because most of the times when people read script they just want to know where’s the location and what are they saying to each other, because that’s all you are going to need. But in a another notebook that’s just for me to remember my vision it’s more complicated and it’s more clouded too…Ideas for shots and ideas for the angles and how much coverage might be needed in a certain scene. But that’s a notebook that only a few people have to see because I don’t want to cloud everyone’s brain out with stuff that you might not need.
Do you draw?
No. A little bit but not so much. You can write it right out of my shot list. And sometimes I have an idea that maybe we should do this in just one shot or maybe you are not so sure so you will do 2 or 3 angles or you go in thinking that you are going to need 5 or 6 shots but you know the first time you see it, you just say: “That’s all that I need!” You know? It’s just sort of that balance between being really prepared and having a plan but being open to learn something new when we see it on the day or being excited or really kind of getting out of your own head. Because I had made a mistake in the past when you make a plan when you are alone in your room. You know? You think: “This is really great!” but it doesn’t really account for being in the real world and all. And then you go out there and it’s just sort of like really being open to having a plan in your mind but forgetting it a little bit and keeping your eyes open to the actors. To really keep your eyes on the actors and the scenery that you are having fun with. Sure there is a certain point when your imagination doesn’t serve you very well and it really is there in front of you…
We had a lesson of drawing, storyboard and stuff like that here on Motovun film Festival. And I think it’s very good to be aware of that kind of techniques. But if you are not doing Science Fiction or Historical Drama or some Hitchcock Complex scene or something similar then it’s maybe cool that you should always believe the actors, situation and the whole scene. Because sometimes you just can’t premeditate the film completely and in that time you have to let your self to the certain situation of filming the film. You think you work like that?
You know it’s like if you let’s say maybe go on to the set to reverse the scene and in your minds eye maybe you have always seen it from this perspective right here, there are two people standing in the room and you can see them and the camera is right here. And when let’s say maybe actors are reversing the scene always make a point to make sure that you go on the other side of the room just to see what it’s like the opposite of what you had in your mind. Always be open to what might be there and seeing things from different angles.
We mentioned your style. Style is when people are repeating something and that makes it their style. You repeated the one shot sequence intro in Boogie Nights in your third movie Magnolia. It’s a similar outline but in a different mood. How was it filming that?
I kind of remember it. I remember it when I see it but I don’t really remember filming it that much.
So was it hard filming that one shot sequence where you follow the boy on to that Pop quiz show on television? Coming off from the rain to inside of a building and than changing the floors and the shot just keeps on going and going.
Yeah! That’s a lot of showing of. In previous lesson I was telling you not to show of. But that’s a lot of showing of right there. J
Well this shot is quite Robert Altman. He would made that kind of a shot if he would have a steady cam. J This shot it’s a quite a melancholy mess. Nothing important happens in this shot but everything happens. Everything is there! It’s Magnolia!
Yeah you know I think maybe something like that in that movie gets an audiences pulse going. It’s always great when a movie kicks in to a gear you know maybe this is about 20 minutes or 25 minutes into the movie where normally a plot really kicks in. In Magnolia there wasn’t really a plot to kick in at 25 or 30 minutes, because there really wasn’t a plot but you’ve got to kind of put something there anyway I think because audiences expect that at 20 minutes in something will happen. Or let’s say like they expect that something will happen in last 16 minutes…First act, second act, third act. So you have to fill those gaps even if you want to break the rules and say: “I don’t want to do first, second & third act!”. Yet you have to do something because an audience just expects something…when you go to cinema to see movies your stomach always tells you that something is going to happen. My butt…You know my butt in the seat of the movie theater knows that something will happen. So that’s just kind of an excuse in a movie with no plot to make it feel like something is going on.
Yes, because I have never seen something happening in such a dynamic way!
Thank You!
And of course in your movies you also have the other side of your story telling. Especially Magnolia where at the end the movie is getting slower and slower. And you have this situation with Tom Cruise coming at the door while his long lost, long forgotten father is dying, the “son of a bitch father” is dying the next door. And then you have the 2 and a half minutes long dialog but the camera doesn’t move at all and it’s not even in the room. And you have the door half opened. And you have Tom Cruise but you don’t see him…
Yeah….Well he didn’t get his usually salary. (Laughing) For 29 millions you can put him in front of the camera all you want, but we only gave him a few bucks. (Laughing) But maybe I think that this is the case that I said before when there is a lot going on in the scene I feel like maybe the less you should do as a director. And maybe that was the case of realizing that in that one long shot scene there wasn’t a lot going on, there are just people moving around, but in the other scene with Tom Cruise that you refer to, there was a lot going on. There was a lot being said between the actors and it is important and it was made in just one shot. And like I said before it’s a great opportunity and you can say to your actors: “We are just going to do it in this one shot. Camera is not going to move.” There is no time for the dolly grip to screw anything up or the focus to be off. It’s just sitting there and watching the actors, which is, if there is a lot going on, a lot of times the best way to go out and shot a scene like that. Just out of the way for the most important thing. The only thing anybody cares about when they’re seeing a movie: What are the actors doing? It’s really the most important thing when you go and see a movie. So that’s kind of a theory that I have.
I have two theories about this shot. One is very philosophical: He is hiding behind the door, because you wanted to hid something from us, or let’s say Tom Cruise had to hide something from us and so on and on. In the second one I was just imagining your personal joy of having Tom Cruise out of the take. (Laughing)
(Laughing) There is something nice, like in movies when there is just a nice sense of mystery when you hear what somebody is saying but you don’t see them. You know that’s always an interesting thing, maybe you can cut in the scene or something like that and ask your self, what makes people listen. If the camera is on you but I am talking, it might make an audience listen a little bit more but if the camera is on me and I am talking and people can see my mouth and body and arms moving. They will not be so concentrated on me talking because they can see me doing that. So you have that aid where it’s always interesting how to make decisions for the audience…Like how can I make them listen. And I think when Tom Cruise isn’t on camera you might be listening closely: “What the fuck is he doing…you know…He’s behind the fucking door?” And I think that kind of hooks draw you in to the movie a little bit more. It’s an interesting thing in movies how they work and how they can make you listen to certain things. It’s always fascinating.
Did you know that you are going to film like that before you went on the set, before you have seen the location or…?
No, no, not really. Maybe when I saw the location. You know? When you go out and scout the location and what happens is that thing that I was talking about before, getting out of your head and getting out of the way you wrote the movie. The reason also why he doesn’t open the doors is because of all those dogs, all those crazy dogs. And the second he opens up the doors these dogs all go running out. So when you get there and there is really, like five crazy fucking dogs often the actors have to deal with these dogs! Because you can’t really imagine what five dogs barking and going ape shit will do until you are there. Fuck it. You should just stand back and you don’t attempt to calm the dogs down or anything else and you just let it happened as it was. That’s kind of the case.
What’s your experience in directing the dogs? Did you have experiences before or after that?
No it was just these once time and I always leave it to experts.
What’s your experience with Movie Superstars? Stephen Daldry explained before he had some problems. What was your experience with Tom Cruise? How did he do?
Great! Tom Cruise is…
Terrific there! Before that film I really didn’t know he was such a good actor.
Well……Stanley Kubrick thought he was a good actor. That’s pretty good sign (thing) on your résumé.
Oh yeah you are right.
But my experience with movie stars has always been the best. The reason why they are movie stars…
…because they are good?
Yes, but they also work really hard and they show up on time… They have to keep being movie stars so they have to keep being good, you know. The only trouble I’ve ever had was with my day player actors coming to you…like the bar maid: “Would you like more coffee?” and asking all this questions: “Do you like me to say it like that or how would you like me to smile, act, or whatever?”. And you go: “Just fucking say more coffee! It’s not that big of a deal?!”
You started with a very big thing, very complex movie; very complex directing and then you get to Magnolia which is a big, complicated and ambitious movie with a very, very strong message. And then you get to the very simple one – The forth film! Did you just like felt doing something more easygoing, more simple, with just two persons, love…
Yeah, well it’s really a very interesting story in the way that I thought after making Magnolia, you know which is a very big story and a lot of characters, I had an instinct, just that natural instinct when as soon as you are done with it you want to do something completely different. And I thought it would be something just kind of easier to make, like make a sweet comedy, but it actually turned out to be much more difficult to make than Magnolia. Just so hard to actually concentrate on one story which is really ironically a great lesson that I learned that they are all difficult, there is just no such thing as taking a break or making it simple. They all acquire the same amount of attention. And if anything it requires more attention if you can’t cut from one story to the next. You really have to be on top of your game because you can’t cut anywhere, you know, you are just sticking, like in Punch Drunk Love, with Adam Sandler the whole time. It kind of forces you to make very strong decisions. And it’s funny how hard it is, to be simple, how hard it is to get out of the way. It’s kind of easy as director I think sometimes to maybe, when you are not sure about a certain scene, to make a big fuss and do a lot of work and do a lot of stuff. That’s kind of your natural instinct, you are just like: “Errrr, I don’t know what to do! Oh yeah! Let’s do a bunch of shit!” You know? In suppose to really stopping and wondering what’s the simplest way that I can approach this, what’s the simplest way to communicate to an audience what the scene is about or what is happening. That’s so hard but when you feel like you can do it, when you carve away and just get through all the crap that your head might dream of that you should do. There is nothing better then that feeling of being really successful in being just direct, simple and clear. I would just love to try and do that more and more and more!
There are two in a way very similar films. You, Adam Sandler and Punch Drunk Love and Jim Carrey and Man on the Moon. Those two films surprised people in a way. Especially the choice of actors…
Is Punch Drunk Love being distributed in Cinemas here in Croatia and Slovenia? Did it do very well?
Yeah I think it’s coming.
Aha OK. It’s coming. Well I think they are both terrific actors. I think all comedic actors are really, really talented and all generally very troubled.
It reminds me of Peter Sellers…
Yeah, me too, me too!
Okay of course you didn’t have another story to inter cut here in Punch Drunk Love, but you had those color shapes. What was that all about?
Well they were done by an artist and they were painted digitally. He is a painter and he did them in Photoshop. We had all those individual paintings and then we would animate them. His name is Jeremy Blake and I am not sure what they mean, the pictures that is, or why they are in the movie except that they look cool and they feel right. You know? A lot of times I think that’s okay. A lot of times it’s really okay to put something in the movie with no reason for justifying it and if it just looks cool or if it feels good, it’s okay. You know, you know when it’s cheating and when it’s bad but otherwise it just got to be something like that in a movie…It’s a movie after all!
Did you go to film school?
No.
Well I read on the internet that you were in the film school for 2 days. Then you rather turned on your own. Have you been watching a lot of films?
Yes.
Do you recognize your parents as the one who also helped you a lot on your career path?
Yes.
32. Well if Robert Altman and Martin Scorcese would be man and wife you would be an ideal son of them. (Laughing)
(Laughing) Wow! I would like to see them doing you know…
………hmmmmm …yes… Now I can’t get that out of my fucking head!
…(Laughing)
(Laughing) Maybe this could be a good scene for your next movie. A love story! (Laughing)
Yeah. You know I think when I started I think I got lucky because when I was a kid it was really the beginning of home video cameras. And my dad bought a home video camera when I was like eleven or twelve. And I think everybody that is making movies nowadays played with camera when they were kids but having video made it so much easier, made it so much more immediate so in a lot of ways I kind of felt like an old man or an old pro or something by the time I really got to make movies because I have always been filming with a video camera which was sort of a new thing in the 70’ or early 80’ when I was growing up. And I think in a lot of ways maybe there is a generation of film makers that had to go to film school to get access to that equipment and I always felt, when I was growing up, that I did have to go to film school because that is how people before me have done. So you feel like. “Well the only way I am going to be able to get to do this is to go to film school!”. But when I graduated at High School my grades weren’t good enough to get in to college. So I screwed around for a couple of years and I didn’t have anything going on! And I was so desperate. And the other thing, especially in Hollywood, was that like: “The younger you are you should be making a movie. You know by 23 or 24 you should already be making movies. You know Orson Welles was 24 when he made Citizen Kane. I am a fucking failure, you know!!”. I worked really hard to get in to NYU and I finally did but by the time I got there I just…I think it was a combination of really feeling arrogant…Arrogant in good ways. I just couldn’t be there and I took the money that my father gave me for my college tuition and I decided to put it all in the short film. And what I knew was that this was a desperate move. It was sort of like: “This will make or break me and I really have to put it all into this!”. And I think there is something kind of exciting about that and at the times I was saying to myself: “If this doesn’t go well I will be a fucking failure the rest of my life!” Which really wouldn’t be true but I had to do it for myself. And I did and it worked out really well for me and I am glad that I made that decision. But in a lot of ways I do regret that I didn’t go to film school sometimes because I missed out on some things. I know kids that went to college and really had fantastic time on university and made a lot of great friends. I do regret it a bit that I missed out on that time. But I know my life wouldn’t be any different I think I would just probably have a little more friends.
(Laughing) But you do have a lot of friends. I have a feeling that you are making your films with your friends. You know I mean the crew is the same, the producer and actors. Same faces!
Yeah, well you know that’s that thing with making movies that it is…I am sure that anybody here on this festival knows that if you love movies or if you want to make movies you are going to find other people like you. It’s just like being in a circus or just like being a gypsy. You will gravitate towards the people that are as fucking insane as you are and want to like stay up all night and make movies. You find each other and that thing just happens. It’s kind of like the river starts flowing you know and all the small rivers come together in this one big river and people that love movies and love doing them find each other and that happened to me. We all found each other!
…but your family is also involved in the film business. You are an insider in a way.
Well sort of…My father worked on television in the states. He did the voiceovers for television commercials. So he was saying things like: “Go to the supermarket and buy stuff for 99 cents.” or whatever. That was his job and in many ways he wasn’t a film industry insider but he knew a lot of the technical people behind the scenes. So I got to grow up with a lot of technicians that recorded his work and stuff like that so I was able to be around that growing up which I think was incredibly helpful. It probably helped me realize who my real friends were: The people that made the movies as supposed to people who paid for them.
Yeah because your first big movie…second movie Boogie Nights is actually about a bunch of people that are making movies. They are making odd kind of movies. They are making porn. And you get in to the kind of an atmosphere. And I admire the fact that you were kind of a first time director and you were already making movies about filmmaking.
I liked it better when I was growing up. The old days it was better than it is now. When I grew up in the suburb of Los Angeles in San Fernando Valley I don’ remember anything else except that this part of Los Angeles is the capital of porn production. You know in Hollywood, that’s where they make regular movies but everybody goes over to the Valley and they make their porn movies and they pretend like that they are Hollywood and they pretend that they are like big stars and everything else. And that’s where I grew up so I kind of new that that was going on as a kid. So I guess I just wrote about what I knew. I just served the job. I think that’s what you are suppose to do. Just write about what you know.
I guess there is one of the terms in school of film making when all professors are teaching you that you should do something of what you know, write and make a movie about things you know. And you really did it. Your first couple of movies are really taking place in San Fernando Valley so they are kind of your home movies…
I think that’s the way that you are suppose to do it. And I don’t think it necessarily means that it has to take place where you are from you know, just as long it is personal and it can still be science fiction film. If you can find a way to highlight your personal experiences and what you think and what you know or what you believe you can set it on Mars or you can set it where you are from. You can set it in San Fernando Valley, Croatia or Slovenia. Just as long as it is coming from what you know. I think that’s the best way to do it! Those are the movies that I like the best when you really feel that they are personal!
Just relieve us…how come you really succeeded, how come they recognized you so quickly coming from San Fernando Valley with original ideas and a passion for making bizarre movies. How come you appeared and they gave you the money for your movies. How did you even appear from the fact that you were nobody?
I have no fucking idea!………
I don’t know. You know I think that I realized just from the things that I have read or people that I knew that were trying to get movies made. That the best thing that I could possibly do was to write the script really well. Because when you are going to get financing for your movie you are going to beg people to be involved with it and the only thing you got are this hundred or so many pages and you just got to be able to say: “This is it! And if this makes sense to you, you know, if you like this you will love the movie. But if you don’t like it you’ll never like the movie.” So that is just the thing that I learned early on that I try to be as clear as I possible could be in the script because than everything else falls into place. I also learned early on if you get into the situation when the script isn’t right and you are going in to shoot it, it will never get right. You will be tossing and chasing your tail. It just became something that I learned in an attempt to convince people to get me money or to convince actors to be in it. It all kept going back to the screenplay. Which is just the Bible! It is really the bible to which you can always point to!
Do you ever change your screenplays?
No, no. Absolutely I will change it…yeah, yeah…I mean within reasons but it’s not suddenly going to turn into something completely different. But there will be small changes.
Confident to your self and confident to your scripts.
Yeah. Confident! A little arrogant and stupid…
…did Burt Reynolds love the script at first glance?
Burt Reynolds? Oh Burt Reynolds was just looking for a job (Laughing)
(Laughing)
It wasn’t like Burt Reynolds had a long line of work lined up (Laughing)
(Laughing) So it looks like Burt Reynolds revival.
Yeah! A brief revival! (Laughing) Burt Reynolds needed a job and so did Mark Wahlberg…you know what! They got Julianne Moore to be in a movie and that was a big deal because everybody, especially actors really loved Julianne Moore. So everybody could kind of breathe easily. It’s a movie that sticks out pornography and stuff like that but if an actress like Julianne Moore says “I want to be in this!” everybody else just goes “Maybe there is something too smart about this!”. Because they really didn’t know who I was and they didn’t have the ability to trust me but they had the ability to know that Julianne had a really good taste. So that’s something that I think it’s really important that I was surrounded by people that had good taste. While I didn’t have any kind of track record I was working with a producer and a casting director for a little while who knew a lot of people and that was very helpful. They could kind of trust his instincts to while I might have been a little bit of a wild card at the time. To help me around people and that was a good buffer.
And of course I would also like to know what you are going to do next and what your future of film making is. What’s your next project and where do you find inspiration?
I am looking for it right now (Laughing). You know, I don’t have any plans to make a movie right now. I am reading and I am writing and I am trying to travel as much as I can. I will probably try to take maybe a year or so or two off because I think four movies in whatever, like six or seven years and I did feel a little bit like a little bit of my life just passing by. So now I try to focus a little bit more on my family, you know on something other than movies for a little bit. It’s funny! I was so desperate to make movies and then I got the ability to make movies and I made four of them now. And now I should stand back because there are things that are a bit more important to me now than making movies. It’s kind of an interesting thing. So I don’t have a next project and I am taking my time try to read all those books that I wanted to read, clean my house (laughing), sleep up a little bit,…
Tell us something about your first movie Hard Eight.
Well it was the first movie that I made. (Laughing) I made it very quickly and for a very small company. Was it distributed here?
I think just on video not in Cinemas.
It’s good. If you can find it it’s a very good movie!
(Laughing) You said that you started with a short movie. What is your relationship to shorts? Will you still make a short movie someday?
You know it’s a great question because I have written a couple of little shorts that I want to make. I said that I really didn’t have any projects, big projects planned but I would love just for practice or just for fun to make something that I can get together with a few friends and do it in one weekend. To do short films. I got a few of them actually just for myself, not to come out or anything like that or on video. Just to be alive a little bit. Because I know that I couldn’t go for a couple of years without shooting something. Short films are almost like something for just keep exercising or something like that so you don’t get stiff. Also you know it’s nice because you can make a short film for 50 or 100 dollars. Video Cameras and material is getting cheaper and cheaper so if you got a video camera you can do anything if the story is simple enough. That’s a really nice feeling.
How long did it take you to write Boogie Nights and place it for somebody to pick it up and of course make it into a movie?
Well, I made a short film when I was 17. It was a half our short film on video and it was called “The Dirk Diggler story” and it was like…You know I have seen Spinal Tap and I just wanted to make a movie like that. So I made this fake documentary about this porn star Dirk Diggler…
…did he really exist?
No he didn’t exist.
But there was one real actor who also played in porno movies at that time and who got murdered…
John Holmes, but Dirk Diggler was made up. Similar dick size but different person and he didn’t die. John Holmes did die. So anyway! I did that 30 minutes thing and then 2 or 3 years later, maybe when I was 19 or 20 I decided that I would write it as a fully fictional documentary. And I did that and it was funny because it was a great exercise because really I was just ripping off Spinal Tap. And this was great for me to do because then a few years passed and I realized, you know that’s kind of an old format by now. While it was original within the format but the format wasn’t very original and I was just trying to emulate what I liked. So many years passed and then when I went to go not making fictional documentary but write it as just a straight fictional film it was great. It was almost like I was operating with a documentary in my hands. It was almost like I was telling a true story of Dirk Diggler. And I was able to write it very quickly in maybe 3 or 4 months. But that’s 9 years that it took me to make that movie all together. But valuable nine years. I learned a lot and I was getting more and more ideas. And I am writing all my ideas in my notebook and I keep that notebook with my ideas around me all the time. It’s cool that I keep having around something that I wrote let’s say 2 years ago which usually comes in valuable just many years later. I just can’t stress enough the importance of notebooks and writing things down and constantly writing which will always serve you well.
So if it took you nine years, don’t you ever lose your enthusiasm?
No, no…
How?
Well because I think I have gone away from it for so long, you know? I wrote other things in the meantime. It was just a little bit gone but always in the back of my mind. It was death to me in one way but then when I had another way of doing it, it came alive again. As a documentary it was death and boring and also kind of lame but to do it as a regular straight movie suddenly the ideas become fresh again.
So do you still find old stories in your notebooks?
Yeah, yeah!
So old stories get better with time sometimes. They improve by being older.
Yeah! Absolutely!
Another question about Magnolia which is quite a complex movie. Unlike other films which have stories, have characters and something happens, bla, bla…But Magnolia has something that it’s hard to notice when you first see the movie. And that is play with numbers (8:2) and its connection with biblical rain of frogs which is actually quite a phenomenon. How long did it take you to write the script and how many times did you rewrite it?
I wrote Magnolia in maybe little over 9 months but I remember feeling like I was writing for 9 months but I didn’t really know what I was writing but then suddenly in the last 2 months I really wrote the movie. It was almost like just a bunch of stuff and a bunch of stuff and bunch of ideas and you sort of think you are writing but you are not sure what happens but then suddenly something happens and in 2 months I really fell like I wrote it. I went to a cabin in Vermont and that really helped a lot too. Just away from the distractions and my everyday life. Running away from distractions and stuff like that became a good lesson in learning how to write. Just go on to a cabin in the woods and it will get done because probably you just want to go home. You are lonely and you just say to yourself: “I have to get this script done and then I can go home!” (Laughing)
(Laughing) 9 months is a very appropriate, you know, biological time. (Laughing)
Yeah things like that and Robert Altman and Martin Scorsese fucking. (Laughing)
It is obvious that music is very important for you in movies. I read somewhere that music of Amie Mann was actually a part of inspiration for Magnolia. So what’s your recipe for connecting music with movies?
It is true that Amie Mann’s music was a really big inspiration for writing Magnolia. You know it’s funny that everybody wants to be somebody else. Like every actor I know really wants to be a rock star and every rock star really wants to be an actor. And I think I secretly want to be a musician. But I am really just a writer. I can’t play any music so I think there is that thing where I will be writing and writing and writing and I can’t really know if it is any fucking good or not or maybe really not know what the hell I’m doing but sometimes maybe you like hear a piece of music or a song that just really helps make it make sense to you what that’s you are writing. And when I was writing Magnolia I was writing it for a little while but then hearing Amie’s songs really start to make it help me make sense of what I was writing. Because she makes sense of a lot of stuff as songs. So I just tend to use songs that are kind of like a little ID that is dripping on your arm as you are writing. It just helps you! Either or not the songs have anything to do with the movie or maybe they will never end up in the movie, you know! Just stealing something from it. Like I don’t really like to watch movies when I am writing but you need to be fueled by something. I love to read and I just love to listen to music when I am writing.
One silly question. Maybe for us that are not connected to your world Magnolia seemed something very new. Is there is a theory about post modernism in America and are you maybe a part of it? Because Magnolia was really refreshing for me to see. So I am just interested in what are your influences in terms of books. Philosophy if any or any other sources of art or is this just the thing when you sit down and it comes out or do you have some sort of personal agenda? I don’t know. I was really striked by the role of contingency in Magnolia in every day life. It’s a particular vision…
Well some days I fell really “arty” and very theoretical and some days I just can’t find my fucking keys you know. With Magnolia I can remember a few things. I had really gone true a weird time of my life: My father had died and I was between 2 relationships and I remember reading about the rain of frogs and I really wanted to make a movie with a lot of actors. I wanted to make a movie that was epic and I was reading a lot about odd phenomenon and just really bizarre, bizarre shit. And somewhere in the scoop of all that I was just writing. I think it was just one of those times when your hand just kinds of starts leading you and maybe you have your things you think you want to say. And I think I also had this kind of jolt of confidence and enthusiasm because Boogie Nights had come out and it was successful and it was nothing better then that rush of somebody actually validating your work. It really is great! You know people might pretend like it doesn’t matter what people think but it’s kind of fucking really nice when you work so hard and people say: “That was job well done and that was really good!”. And if you are a writer and you are alone in your room which you spend a lot of times doing it’s like a good glass of water when somebody says good job, really good job. And out of that confidence I think I just wrote that movie and that’s sort of the best way I can describe what I was thinking at the time. A little bit of just sort of being blind and writing it’s just the best way to go.
Before you made Hard Eight I presume that this wasn’t the first script you wrote. How come you chose it to be your first one?
Yes I have only written maybe one or two other scripts that I didn’t really like that much and I liked this one and it seemed that I could do it. It seemed that I could make a movie which was small with only four characters in Reno, Nevada and that I could raise money for it. It was really all I had.
You had no choice!
Yeah but I really didn’t need any other choice. It was that movie that I wanted to make. I got very lucky on that movie just to start making it but I got in a lot of trouble when I made the movie. There were some producers that fired me actually after I… It was my movie. I mean I wrote it and directed it and then I found these guys to finance it and they were real criminals.
(Laughing)
I put the movie together. And they had all these ideas for cuts that I wouldn’t make. Some of them were actually good ideas but I was too arrogant to like see that they were good ideas and they were kind of dicks too. But they ended up taking movie away from me. It was like this amazing lesson very early on where I was hit fucking repeatedly over and over again and I fought and I desperately tried to get the movie back and it was just a long, long battle. And eventually I got the movie back but there was a period where I did get beat up enough and where I was swimming in the darkest depression and I thought my career is over and I will never get another chance. But I pulled my self out of it somehow and the only way that I could get things going again is if I go to work again. So I went and get Boogie Nights made and the amazing thing in doing that was I went to get Boogie Nights made and that became kind of easy, getting money for it and at the same time I reinvestigated the fight to get my first movie back. And I got that movie back so I was in pre-production of Boogie Night while I was re-cutting and finishing off my first movie. And it was kind of a this great lesson that I learned just having gone in this really deep and dark depression where I couldn’t get out of my fucking bed and the only thing that I could do is just get up and attack, attack and attack. And I am happy that that happened. So it was kind of a great first lesson on my first movie. And I was able to learn right then and there all kinds of mistakes that I have made. All that arrogance where I wasn’t seeing anything and where they were right and I was just to blind to notice it. But I also learned that I was right on a lot of stuff and I should have fought for what I believed. So it’s just kind of a great lesson on my first movie.
This is a second great tip of the season. Beat depression by breaking it!
Yeah! Absolutely!
What do you think about Cameron Crowe and his film making?
Yeah I like him.
Do you see any similarities between your work and his? Okay perhaps except Vanilla Sky which is a bit of a mess. Because it seems to me that you are in the way both passionate to make bizarre and kind of personal movies. And the two of you both made Tom Cruise act which is quite hard to do…
…Tom Cruise got a bad wrap around here. (Laughing)
(Laughing) Well for me this personal or emotional dimension connects the two of you.
Yeah, I know Cameron Crowe makes personal movies and I think that I do too and we both like music and we both like Tom Cruise (Laughing). And that’s about it.
(Laughing) Could you tell us which other films from other film makers do you like.
There is a movie tonight called “Noi Albinoi” that’s fucking amazing and that movie that I saw last night “In This World” by Michael Winterbottom is fucking incredible and I can’t wait to see “Dogville”. I just love everything that crazy fucking Danish fuck does. He’s pretty god damn good. I start swearing when I like things (Laughing). But I love Lars von Trier and those are the people that I like right now. Did that answer your question?
Yep. I think you are very popular generally in the world and your movies are very popular amongst public but you are more appreciated by juries on festivals in Europe than in America if I remember well.
Thank God! (Laughing)
(Laughing) Maybe when you will imagine let’s say your next project maybe you could transfer this project to Europe because maybe public here likes you more than Hollywood “big guys”. (Laughing).
You know what. I will stick around Hollywood for a little while longer and then when they get fucking seek of me and they kick me out I know I can always come here and start making movies here. But I actually do have a movie that I want to make and will take place in parts of Europe. But I don’t know…I think as a kid secretly deep down inside, if you are growing up in America, you know that the place that they really love movies is Europe and that they have a different appreciation for them. And European movies are sort of big influence…Well they were on me. So in a way we always secretly think: “My god I hope they like my movies in Europe.” So…someday, someday!
You have to drag Tom Cruise with you as well. (Laughing)
(Laughing)
When I think about all this and people watching you and your movies and on the other side people that are watching films that are nothing new, nothing revolutionary, everything that we have already seen before. It’s nothing like Lars Von Trier who is always making something up. He does things that nobody would expect to see in a feature film. And we also have all these guys inventing new things – a lot of steady cam and jerky camera. And we know somehow and everybody feels that this is really something new, something unique maybe because of this sense of sincerity. And I don’t know a proper answer to this and I don’t think you might have one but I think a new cinema is emerging with a lot of these young directors. Is it possible that this grows into really something big which will influence this mainstream…
No.
…Hollywood…
No.
…film…
No.
…making? (Laughing) And generally maybe America coming to Europe.
Yeah! No! It’s not. It’s way too fucking big. It’s not going to change! It has really made up his mind I think about how it wants to be and all that will happen it’s sort of the same as it ever was, you know. There’s going to be good stuff and there is going to be bad stuff. And you find the good stuff and you hold on to it and pray that everything will be good. And then nothing happens but then you should get another good thing. I’ve kind of given up thinking that the entire landscapes of movies will change and everything would be good. I mean you just look for the good things and don’t pay for the bad things and just keep going to film festivals where you can see the movies that you like. We are never going to be really that happy with Hollywood, you are never going to be so just find the things you like. It’s kind of like; you take what you can get.
But maybe there is a tribe of good people that think like that but it’s just hard to find them.
Really? (Laughing) I don’t know. I find when, I come to a festival or when I am making movies or when I am with people that I know, I fell pretty comfortable. You know, that I have found people that like good things and I stay away from the bad people who want to suck your blood.
(Laughing) Okay! Last question! Finally! J I have read that you have been doing some music videos. Do you like making them and are you going to make some more?
I like to make music videos. Sure. I like them. They are nice and they are fun and it’s kind of like making short films but I don’t have any plans to make some more. I really don’t have any time for it but maybe someday.
Okay I would just like to really thank you for this…not interview but a really long and cool conversation.
Yeah. No problem. Thank you and I will be back because Motovun Film Festival is one of the best festivals I have ever visited.
Paul Thomas Anderson at the Motovun Film Festival, Croatia
Okorn:
I am sorry… I must say that I hate to talk to you and I wouldn't like to talk to you because I have seen your films and I don't understand why you made those films and I don't understand why I didn't made those films. And another reason why I don’t see sense to taking to you is that everything that I won’t to know about your movies can be seen in your movies because they are so transparent.
Anderson:
Well that is very nice of you to say. I can help you. Yea. Well that’s nice that you see that they are transparent. I think that’s what they should be.
We will talk about directing. And let’s begin with the first take of your 2nd feature film Boogie Nights. The opening scene. And from that scene we can get to know you better. Well and from that take we can get the first message about the film and first message from Paul Thomas Anderson to the whole world. And that message is: I CAN DIRECT!!! Do you remember the scene and how did you do it. With a steady cam?
Yeah it was with a steady cam. And steady cam operator was standing on the top of the crane and then the crane came down where he step off the crane and ran furiously down the street and follow the car and follow them into the club. This scene was really fun to do. I like doing shots like this in my movies – they are always fun to do. But I saw Russian Ark this morning actually which is….
…A little but longer…
…yeah and makes this scene and the whole movie look like a little student movie, really. But I think what is so nice about it that it’s really nice for actors you know because usually in the movies a scene is pieced together from all these different shots and I think that’s really hard for actors to kind of keep remembering in their minds where they might be. So it’s something really nice for actors when it’s all kind of a one continuous thing and they can really act and kind of do their job and they don’t have to think so much.
But they have to think where they have to be in a certain moment.
Yeah. But that’s only one job in comparison with shooting all these pieces of one scene over and over again from all these different angles. And it’s also a lot of fun you know. It kind of makes the entire crew and everybody: “You should know what you are going after; you should know when you go to work that day that there is nothing better than the feeling that we trying to get something difficult made today.” And everybody is working towards getting that done. And when you get it there’s that kind of incomparable feeling of just joy. You did it…You got it! That’s the great thing about making the movies.
Besides from being confident and skillful and besides telling us that you can direct there is a very good point at the beginning of the movie because all characters of Boogie Night are there in this one take sequence and this sequence ends with a cut and after this cut you have a guy, the guy with a big cock who is going to become a born hero and change the lives of all those guys who were shown in these one shot sequence.
Well yeah! You don’t want to do something just to show off usually. Well sometimes you do. But most of the times you get caught pretty easily and I think audiences will kind of go like:
Why did you do that? That was just showing off? But if you can show off and this also kind of helps progress the story along and maybe in a really interesting way you can introduce the characters. Then that’s good – you can’t get…just don’t get caught.
Let’s get back to technicalities which are interesting. You shot on real location. What did your producer say to you when you told him that you are going to start this scene in the night, so you are obliged to do everything in the night which is more expensive and stuff?
Well there was no problem because I have a relationship with my producer that’s not argumentative. It’s more…really supportive. We argue quite a lot but it was always just sort of very obvious that it should take place at night and it’s going to be hard to film but at the end rewarding. So he was all right with it.
What about steady cam operator? Is he also a friend…After you made that shot?
Well he wasn’t after but he was before. He’s a very “bad” guy. He’s a really a big British guy. But we survived.
Did you shoot that scene in the first day of shooting?
No, no, no! There’s an old theory you know, that you should just start out in the first couple of days with something easy, just so you can get your groove on. This was maybe about 2 or 3 weeks in. But we have been planning it for like a month or something like that. A great thing I’ve learned about something like this or whenever you are going to make movies there can not be enough planning. You know there’s never enough planning. It’s always the best way to go about it. We just go out to that street and look at it and kind of dream it up and talk about it and then a week later come back with new ideas and kind of change the older ideas. It’s just a great thing when we go on and attack a movie to prepare as much as we possible can. So I think that’s what helped us to be able to do it, especially for the money that we had and the time that we had. Because we ended up doing it all in one night. We maybe just did it about 20 maybe 25 times but, you know, that was all we had time for you know. Because sun went down at 19.00, 19.30, 20.00 O’clock…
…And the night was yours…
…And the night was ours. But not really because you can’t really start shooting at 7, 7.30, 8 O’clock. It has just gotten dark enough so you can see what lights actually look like and than you have to adjust them. But having all the time to prepare made it really, really easy – relatively easy actually.
Well seeing this whole film, this take doesn’t say that this is the way of your writing or film making because you are changing it all the time. You have takes like this and then you suddenly have some other scenes that are quickly cut. Cut, cut, cut. And then your specialty is also to make a long statically punctual provocative scenes and takes. So definitely seen your three films there is no system to all three of them except that they are all very good and meaningful. Do you relay on your intuition very much when deciding and picking up solutions. How do you do it? From Imagining to realization?
Well……….eee……..I have to keep two different notebooks. When I am writing the screenplay many times I will visualize what the scene might look like and I will be writing the screenplay, but I will try to keep the screenplay as clear of any kind of scriptage stuff as possible. I would just try to keep it on the level: where is the location – Inside or outside, what the characters will say. Because most of the times when people read script they just want to know where’s the location and what are they saying to each other, because that’s all you are going to need. But in a another notebook that’s just for me to remember my vision it’s more complicated and it’s more clouded too…Ideas for shots and ideas for the angles and how much coverage might be needed in a certain scene. But that’s a notebook that only a few people have to see because I don’t want to cloud everyone’s brain out with stuff that you might not need.
Do you draw?
No. A little bit but not so much. You can write it right out of my shot list. And sometimes I have an idea that maybe we should do this in just one shot or maybe you are not so sure so you will do 2 or 3 angles or you go in thinking that you are going to need 5 or 6 shots but you know the first time you see it, you just say: “That’s all that I need!” You know? It’s just sort of that balance between being really prepared and having a plan but being open to learn something new when we see it on the day or being excited or really kind of getting out of your own head. Because I had made a mistake in the past when you make a plan when you are alone in your room. You know? You think: “This is really great!” but it doesn’t really account for being in the real world and all. And then you go out there and it’s just sort of like really being open to having a plan in your mind but forgetting it a little bit and keeping your eyes open to the actors. To really keep your eyes on the actors and the scenery that you are having fun with. Sure there is a certain point when your imagination doesn’t serve you very well and it really is there in front of you…
We had a lesson of drawing, storyboard and stuff like that here on Motovun film Festival. And I think it’s very good to be aware of that kind of techniques. But if you are not doing Science Fiction or Historical Drama or some Hitchcock Complex scene or something similar then it’s maybe cool that you should always believe the actors, situation and the whole scene. Because sometimes you just can’t premeditate the film completely and in that time you have to let your self to the certain situation of filming the film. You think you work like that?
You know it’s like if you let’s say maybe go on to the set to reverse the scene and in your minds eye maybe you have always seen it from this perspective right here, there are two people standing in the room and you can see them and the camera is right here. And when let’s say maybe actors are reversing the scene always make a point to make sure that you go on the other side of the room just to see what it’s like the opposite of what you had in your mind. Always be open to what might be there and seeing things from different angles.
We mentioned your style. Style is when people are repeating something and that makes it their style. You repeated the one shot sequence intro in Boogie Nights in your third movie Magnolia. It’s a similar outline but in a different mood. How was it filming that?
I kind of remember it. I remember it when I see it but I don’t really remember filming it that much.
So was it hard filming that one shot sequence where you follow the boy on to that Pop quiz show on television? Coming off from the rain to inside of a building and than changing the floors and the shot just keeps on going and going.
Yeah! That’s a lot of showing of. In previous lesson I was telling you not to show of. But that’s a lot of showing of right there. J
Well this shot is quite Robert Altman. He would made that kind of a shot if he would have a steady cam. J This shot it’s a quite a melancholy mess. Nothing important happens in this shot but everything happens. Everything is there! It’s Magnolia!
Yeah you know I think maybe something like that in that movie gets an audiences pulse going. It’s always great when a movie kicks in to a gear you know maybe this is about 20 minutes or 25 minutes into the movie where normally a plot really kicks in. In Magnolia there wasn’t really a plot to kick in at 25 or 30 minutes, because there really wasn’t a plot but you’ve got to kind of put something there anyway I think because audiences expect that at 20 minutes in something will happen. Or let’s say like they expect that something will happen in last 16 minutes…First act, second act, third act. So you have to fill those gaps even if you want to break the rules and say: “I don’t want to do first, second & third act!”. Yet you have to do something because an audience just expects something…when you go to cinema to see movies your stomach always tells you that something is going to happen. My butt…You know my butt in the seat of the movie theater knows that something will happen. So that’s just kind of an excuse in a movie with no plot to make it feel like something is going on.
Yes, because I have never seen something happening in such a dynamic way!
Thank You!
And of course in your movies you also have the other side of your story telling. Especially Magnolia where at the end the movie is getting slower and slower. And you have this situation with Tom Cruise coming at the door while his long lost, long forgotten father is dying, the “son of a bitch father” is dying the next door. And then you have the 2 and a half minutes long dialog but the camera doesn’t move at all and it’s not even in the room. And you have the door half opened. And you have Tom Cruise but you don’t see him…
Yeah….Well he didn’t get his usually salary. (Laughing) For 29 millions you can put him in front of the camera all you want, but we only gave him a few bucks. (Laughing) But maybe I think that this is the case that I said before when there is a lot going on in the scene I feel like maybe the less you should do as a director. And maybe that was the case of realizing that in that one long shot scene there wasn’t a lot going on, there are just people moving around, but in the other scene with Tom Cruise that you refer to, there was a lot going on. There was a lot being said between the actors and it is important and it was made in just one shot. And like I said before it’s a great opportunity and you can say to your actors: “We are just going to do it in this one shot. Camera is not going to move.” There is no time for the dolly grip to screw anything up or the focus to be off. It’s just sitting there and watching the actors, which is, if there is a lot going on, a lot of times the best way to go out and shot a scene like that. Just out of the way for the most important thing. The only thing anybody cares about when they’re seeing a movie: What are the actors doing? It’s really the most important thing when you go and see a movie. So that’s kind of a theory that I have.
I have two theories about this shot. One is very philosophical: He is hiding behind the door, because you wanted to hid something from us, or let’s say Tom Cruise had to hide something from us and so on and on. In the second one I was just imagining your personal joy of having Tom Cruise out of the take. (Laughing)
(Laughing) There is something nice, like in movies when there is just a nice sense of mystery when you hear what somebody is saying but you don’t see them. You know that’s always an interesting thing, maybe you can cut in the scene or something like that and ask your self, what makes people listen. If the camera is on you but I am talking, it might make an audience listen a little bit more but if the camera is on me and I am talking and people can see my mouth and body and arms moving. They will not be so concentrated on me talking because they can see me doing that. So you have that aid where it’s always interesting how to make decisions for the audience…Like how can I make them listen. And I think when Tom Cruise isn’t on camera you might be listening closely: “What the fuck is he doing…you know…He’s behind the fucking door?” And I think that kind of hooks draw you in to the movie a little bit more. It’s an interesting thing in movies how they work and how they can make you listen to certain things. It’s always fascinating.
Did you know that you are going to film like that before you went on the set, before you have seen the location or…?
No, no, not really. Maybe when I saw the location. You know? When you go out and scout the location and what happens is that thing that I was talking about before, getting out of your head and getting out of the way you wrote the movie. The reason also why he doesn’t open the doors is because of all those dogs, all those crazy dogs. And the second he opens up the doors these dogs all go running out. So when you get there and there is really, like five crazy fucking dogs often the actors have to deal with these dogs! Because you can’t really imagine what five dogs barking and going ape shit will do until you are there. Fuck it. You should just stand back and you don’t attempt to calm the dogs down or anything else and you just let it happened as it was. That’s kind of the case.
What’s your experience in directing the dogs? Did you have experiences before or after that?
No it was just these once time and I always leave it to experts.
What’s your experience with Movie Superstars? Stephen Daldry explained before he had some problems. What was your experience with Tom Cruise? How did he do?
Great! Tom Cruise is…
Terrific there! Before that film I really didn’t know he was such a good actor.
Well……Stanley Kubrick thought he was a good actor. That’s pretty good sign (thing) on your résumé.
Oh yeah you are right.
But my experience with movie stars has always been the best. The reason why they are movie stars…
…because they are good?
Yes, but they also work really hard and they show up on time… They have to keep being movie stars so they have to keep being good, you know. The only trouble I’ve ever had was with my day player actors coming to you…like the bar maid: “Would you like more coffee?” and asking all this questions: “Do you like me to say it like that or how would you like me to smile, act, or whatever?”. And you go: “Just fucking say more coffee! It’s not that big of a deal?!”
You started with a very big thing, very complex movie; very complex directing and then you get to Magnolia which is a big, complicated and ambitious movie with a very, very strong message. And then you get to the very simple one – The forth film! Did you just like felt doing something more easygoing, more simple, with just two persons, love…
Yeah, well it’s really a very interesting story in the way that I thought after making Magnolia, you know which is a very big story and a lot of characters, I had an instinct, just that natural instinct when as soon as you are done with it you want to do something completely different. And I thought it would be something just kind of easier to make, like make a sweet comedy, but it actually turned out to be much more difficult to make than Magnolia. Just so hard to actually concentrate on one story which is really ironically a great lesson that I learned that they are all difficult, there is just no such thing as taking a break or making it simple. They all acquire the same amount of attention. And if anything it requires more attention if you can’t cut from one story to the next. You really have to be on top of your game because you can’t cut anywhere, you know, you are just sticking, like in Punch Drunk Love, with Adam Sandler the whole time. It kind of forces you to make very strong decisions. And it’s funny how hard it is, to be simple, how hard it is to get out of the way. It’s kind of easy as director I think sometimes to maybe, when you are not sure about a certain scene, to make a big fuss and do a lot of work and do a lot of stuff. That’s kind of your natural instinct, you are just like: “Errrr, I don’t know what to do! Oh yeah! Let’s do a bunch of shit!” You know? In suppose to really stopping and wondering what’s the simplest way that I can approach this, what’s the simplest way to communicate to an audience what the scene is about or what is happening. That’s so hard but when you feel like you can do it, when you carve away and just get through all the crap that your head might dream of that you should do. There is nothing better then that feeling of being really successful in being just direct, simple and clear. I would just love to try and do that more and more and more!
There are two in a way very similar films. You, Adam Sandler and Punch Drunk Love and Jim Carrey and Man on the Moon. Those two films surprised people in a way. Especially the choice of actors…
Is Punch Drunk Love being distributed in Cinemas here in Croatia and Slovenia? Did it do very well?
Yeah I think it’s coming.
Aha OK. It’s coming. Well I think they are both terrific actors. I think all comedic actors are really, really talented and all generally very troubled.
It reminds me of Peter Sellers…
Yeah, me too, me too!
Okay of course you didn’t have another story to inter cut here in Punch Drunk Love, but you had those color shapes. What was that all about?
Well they were done by an artist and they were painted digitally. He is a painter and he did them in Photoshop. We had all those individual paintings and then we would animate them. His name is Jeremy Blake and I am not sure what they mean, the pictures that is, or why they are in the movie except that they look cool and they feel right. You know? A lot of times I think that’s okay. A lot of times it’s really okay to put something in the movie with no reason for justifying it and if it just looks cool or if it feels good, it’s okay. You know, you know when it’s cheating and when it’s bad but otherwise it just got to be something like that in a movie…It’s a movie after all!
Did you go to film school?
No.
Well I read on the internet that you were in the film school for 2 days. Then you rather turned on your own. Have you been watching a lot of films?
Yes.
Do you recognize your parents as the one who also helped you a lot on your career path?
Yes.
32. Well if Robert Altman and Martin Scorcese would be man and wife you would be an ideal son of them. (Laughing)
(Laughing) Wow! I would like to see them doing you know…
………hmmmmm …yes… Now I can’t get that out of my fucking head!
…(Laughing)
(Laughing) Maybe this could be a good scene for your next movie. A love story! (Laughing)
Yeah. You know I think when I started I think I got lucky because when I was a kid it was really the beginning of home video cameras. And my dad bought a home video camera when I was like eleven or twelve. And I think everybody that is making movies nowadays played with camera when they were kids but having video made it so much easier, made it so much more immediate so in a lot of ways I kind of felt like an old man or an old pro or something by the time I really got to make movies because I have always been filming with a video camera which was sort of a new thing in the 70’ or early 80’ when I was growing up. And I think in a lot of ways maybe there is a generation of film makers that had to go to film school to get access to that equipment and I always felt, when I was growing up, that I did have to go to film school because that is how people before me have done. So you feel like. “Well the only way I am going to be able to get to do this is to go to film school!”. But when I graduated at High School my grades weren’t good enough to get in to college. So I screwed around for a couple of years and I didn’t have anything going on! And I was so desperate. And the other thing, especially in Hollywood, was that like: “The younger you are you should be making a movie. You know by 23 or 24 you should already be making movies. You know Orson Welles was 24 when he made Citizen Kane. I am a fucking failure, you know!!”. I worked really hard to get in to NYU and I finally did but by the time I got there I just…I think it was a combination of really feeling arrogant…Arrogant in good ways. I just couldn’t be there and I took the money that my father gave me for my college tuition and I decided to put it all in the short film. And what I knew was that this was a desperate move. It was sort of like: “This will make or break me and I really have to put it all into this!”. And I think there is something kind of exciting about that and at the times I was saying to myself: “If this doesn’t go well I will be a fucking failure the rest of my life!” Which really wouldn’t be true but I had to do it for myself. And I did and it worked out really well for me and I am glad that I made that decision. But in a lot of ways I do regret that I didn’t go to film school sometimes because I missed out on some things. I know kids that went to college and really had fantastic time on university and made a lot of great friends. I do regret it a bit that I missed out on that time. But I know my life wouldn’t be any different I think I would just probably have a little more friends.
(Laughing) But you do have a lot of friends. I have a feeling that you are making your films with your friends. You know I mean the crew is the same, the producer and actors. Same faces!
Yeah, well you know that’s that thing with making movies that it is…I am sure that anybody here on this festival knows that if you love movies or if you want to make movies you are going to find other people like you. It’s just like being in a circus or just like being a gypsy. You will gravitate towards the people that are as fucking insane as you are and want to like stay up all night and make movies. You find each other and that thing just happens. It’s kind of like the river starts flowing you know and all the small rivers come together in this one big river and people that love movies and love doing them find each other and that happened to me. We all found each other!
…but your family is also involved in the film business. You are an insider in a way.
Well sort of…My father worked on television in the states. He did the voiceovers for television commercials. So he was saying things like: “Go to the supermarket and buy stuff for 99 cents.” or whatever. That was his job and in many ways he wasn’t a film industry insider but he knew a lot of the technical people behind the scenes. So I got to grow up with a lot of technicians that recorded his work and stuff like that so I was able to be around that growing up which I think was incredibly helpful. It probably helped me realize who my real friends were: The people that made the movies as supposed to people who paid for them.
Yeah because your first big movie…second movie Boogie Nights is actually about a bunch of people that are making movies. They are making odd kind of movies. They are making porn. And you get in to the kind of an atmosphere. And I admire the fact that you were kind of a first time director and you were already making movies about filmmaking.
I liked it better when I was growing up. The old days it was better than it is now. When I grew up in the suburb of Los Angeles in San Fernando Valley I don’ remember anything else except that this part of Los Angeles is the capital of porn production. You know in Hollywood, that’s where they make regular movies but everybody goes over to the Valley and they make their porn movies and they pretend like that they are Hollywood and they pretend that they are like big stars and everything else. And that’s where I grew up so I kind of new that that was going on as a kid. So I guess I just wrote about what I knew. I just served the job. I think that’s what you are suppose to do. Just write about what you know.
I guess there is one of the terms in school of film making when all professors are teaching you that you should do something of what you know, write and make a movie about things you know. And you really did it. Your first couple of movies are really taking place in San Fernando Valley so they are kind of your home movies…
I think that’s the way that you are suppose to do it. And I don’t think it necessarily means that it has to take place where you are from you know, just as long it is personal and it can still be science fiction film. If you can find a way to highlight your personal experiences and what you think and what you know or what you believe you can set it on Mars or you can set it where you are from. You can set it in San Fernando Valley, Croatia or Slovenia. Just as long as it is coming from what you know. I think that’s the best way to do it! Those are the movies that I like the best when you really feel that they are personal!
Just relieve us…how come you really succeeded, how come they recognized you so quickly coming from San Fernando Valley with original ideas and a passion for making bizarre movies. How come you appeared and they gave you the money for your movies. How did you even appear from the fact that you were nobody?
I have no fucking idea!………
I don’t know. You know I think that I realized just from the things that I have read or people that I knew that were trying to get movies made. That the best thing that I could possibly do was to write the script really well. Because when you are going to get financing for your movie you are going to beg people to be involved with it and the only thing you got are this hundred or so many pages and you just got to be able to say: “This is it! And if this makes sense to you, you know, if you like this you will love the movie. But if you don’t like it you’ll never like the movie.” So that is just the thing that I learned early on that I try to be as clear as I possible could be in the script because than everything else falls into place. I also learned early on if you get into the situation when the script isn’t right and you are going in to shoot it, it will never get right. You will be tossing and chasing your tail. It just became something that I learned in an attempt to convince people to get me money or to convince actors to be in it. It all kept going back to the screenplay. Which is just the Bible! It is really the bible to which you can always point to!
Do you ever change your screenplays?
No, no. Absolutely I will change it…yeah, yeah…I mean within reasons but it’s not suddenly going to turn into something completely different. But there will be small changes.
Confident to your self and confident to your scripts.
Yeah. Confident! A little arrogant and stupid…
…did Burt Reynolds love the script at first glance?
Burt Reynolds? Oh Burt Reynolds was just looking for a job (Laughing)
(Laughing)
It wasn’t like Burt Reynolds had a long line of work lined up (Laughing)
(Laughing) So it looks like Burt Reynolds revival.
Yeah! A brief revival! (Laughing) Burt Reynolds needed a job and so did Mark Wahlberg…you know what! They got Julianne Moore to be in a movie and that was a big deal because everybody, especially actors really loved Julianne Moore. So everybody could kind of breathe easily. It’s a movie that sticks out pornography and stuff like that but if an actress like Julianne Moore says “I want to be in this!” everybody else just goes “Maybe there is something too smart about this!”. Because they really didn’t know who I was and they didn’t have the ability to trust me but they had the ability to know that Julianne had a really good taste. So that’s something that I think it’s really important that I was surrounded by people that had good taste. While I didn’t have any kind of track record I was working with a producer and a casting director for a little while who knew a lot of people and that was very helpful. They could kind of trust his instincts to while I might have been a little bit of a wild card at the time. To help me around people and that was a good buffer.
And of course I would also like to know what you are going to do next and what your future of film making is. What’s your next project and where do you find inspiration?
I am looking for it right now (Laughing). You know, I don’t have any plans to make a movie right now. I am reading and I am writing and I am trying to travel as much as I can. I will probably try to take maybe a year or so or two off because I think four movies in whatever, like six or seven years and I did feel a little bit like a little bit of my life just passing by. So now I try to focus a little bit more on my family, you know on something other than movies for a little bit. It’s funny! I was so desperate to make movies and then I got the ability to make movies and I made four of them now. And now I should stand back because there are things that are a bit more important to me now than making movies. It’s kind of an interesting thing. So I don’t have a next project and I am taking my time try to read all those books that I wanted to read, clean my house (laughing), sleep up a little bit,…
Tell us something about your first movie Hard Eight.
Well it was the first movie that I made. (Laughing) I made it very quickly and for a very small company. Was it distributed here?
I think just on video not in Cinemas.
It’s good. If you can find it it’s a very good movie!
(Laughing) You said that you started with a short movie. What is your relationship to shorts? Will you still make a short movie someday?
You know it’s a great question because I have written a couple of little shorts that I want to make. I said that I really didn’t have any projects, big projects planned but I would love just for practice or just for fun to make something that I can get together with a few friends and do it in one weekend. To do short films. I got a few of them actually just for myself, not to come out or anything like that or on video. Just to be alive a little bit. Because I know that I couldn’t go for a couple of years without shooting something. Short films are almost like something for just keep exercising or something like that so you don’t get stiff. Also you know it’s nice because you can make a short film for 50 or 100 dollars. Video Cameras and material is getting cheaper and cheaper so if you got a video camera you can do anything if the story is simple enough. That’s a really nice feeling.
How long did it take you to write Boogie Nights and place it for somebody to pick it up and of course make it into a movie?
Well, I made a short film when I was 17. It was a half our short film on video and it was called “The Dirk Diggler story” and it was like…You know I have seen Spinal Tap and I just wanted to make a movie like that. So I made this fake documentary about this porn star Dirk Diggler…
…did he really exist?
No he didn’t exist.
But there was one real actor who also played in porno movies at that time and who got murdered…
John Holmes, but Dirk Diggler was made up. Similar dick size but different person and he didn’t die. John Holmes did die. So anyway! I did that 30 minutes thing and then 2 or 3 years later, maybe when I was 19 or 20 I decided that I would write it as a fully fictional documentary. And I did that and it was funny because it was a great exercise because really I was just ripping off Spinal Tap. And this was great for me to do because then a few years passed and I realized, you know that’s kind of an old format by now. While it was original within the format but the format wasn’t very original and I was just trying to emulate what I liked. So many years passed and then when I went to go not making fictional documentary but write it as just a straight fictional film it was great. It was almost like I was operating with a documentary in my hands. It was almost like I was telling a true story of Dirk Diggler. And I was able to write it very quickly in maybe 3 or 4 months. But that’s 9 years that it took me to make that movie all together. But valuable nine years. I learned a lot and I was getting more and more ideas. And I am writing all my ideas in my notebook and I keep that notebook with my ideas around me all the time. It’s cool that I keep having around something that I wrote let’s say 2 years ago which usually comes in valuable just many years later. I just can’t stress enough the importance of notebooks and writing things down and constantly writing which will always serve you well.
So if it took you nine years, don’t you ever lose your enthusiasm?
No, no…
How?
Well because I think I have gone away from it for so long, you know? I wrote other things in the meantime. It was just a little bit gone but always in the back of my mind. It was death to me in one way but then when I had another way of doing it, it came alive again. As a documentary it was death and boring and also kind of lame but to do it as a regular straight movie suddenly the ideas become fresh again.
So do you still find old stories in your notebooks?
Yeah, yeah!
So old stories get better with time sometimes. They improve by being older.
Yeah! Absolutely!
Another question about Magnolia which is quite a complex movie. Unlike other films which have stories, have characters and something happens, bla, bla…But Magnolia has something that it’s hard to notice when you first see the movie. And that is play with numbers (8:2) and its connection with biblical rain of frogs which is actually quite a phenomenon. How long did it take you to write the script and how many times did you rewrite it?
I wrote Magnolia in maybe little over 9 months but I remember feeling like I was writing for 9 months but I didn’t really know what I was writing but then suddenly in the last 2 months I really wrote the movie. It was almost like just a bunch of stuff and a bunch of stuff and bunch of ideas and you sort of think you are writing but you are not sure what happens but then suddenly something happens and in 2 months I really fell like I wrote it. I went to a cabin in Vermont and that really helped a lot too. Just away from the distractions and my everyday life. Running away from distractions and stuff like that became a good lesson in learning how to write. Just go on to a cabin in the woods and it will get done because probably you just want to go home. You are lonely and you just say to yourself: “I have to get this script done and then I can go home!” (Laughing)
(Laughing) 9 months is a very appropriate, you know, biological time. (Laughing)
Yeah things like that and Robert Altman and Martin Scorsese fucking. (Laughing)
It is obvious that music is very important for you in movies. I read somewhere that music of Amie Mann was actually a part of inspiration for Magnolia. So what’s your recipe for connecting music with movies?
It is true that Amie Mann’s music was a really big inspiration for writing Magnolia. You know it’s funny that everybody wants to be somebody else. Like every actor I know really wants to be a rock star and every rock star really wants to be an actor. And I think I secretly want to be a musician. But I am really just a writer. I can’t play any music so I think there is that thing where I will be writing and writing and writing and I can’t really know if it is any fucking good or not or maybe really not know what the hell I’m doing but sometimes maybe you like hear a piece of music or a song that just really helps make it make sense to you what that’s you are writing. And when I was writing Magnolia I was writing it for a little while but then hearing Amie’s songs really start to make it help me make sense of what I was writing. Because she makes sense of a lot of stuff as songs. So I just tend to use songs that are kind of like a little ID that is dripping on your arm as you are writing. It just helps you! Either or not the songs have anything to do with the movie or maybe they will never end up in the movie, you know! Just stealing something from it. Like I don’t really like to watch movies when I am writing but you need to be fueled by something. I love to read and I just love to listen to music when I am writing.
One silly question. Maybe for us that are not connected to your world Magnolia seemed something very new. Is there is a theory about post modernism in America and are you maybe a part of it? Because Magnolia was really refreshing for me to see. So I am just interested in what are your influences in terms of books. Philosophy if any or any other sources of art or is this just the thing when you sit down and it comes out or do you have some sort of personal agenda? I don’t know. I was really striked by the role of contingency in Magnolia in every day life. It’s a particular vision…
Well some days I fell really “arty” and very theoretical and some days I just can’t find my fucking keys you know. With Magnolia I can remember a few things. I had really gone true a weird time of my life: My father had died and I was between 2 relationships and I remember reading about the rain of frogs and I really wanted to make a movie with a lot of actors. I wanted to make a movie that was epic and I was reading a lot about odd phenomenon and just really bizarre, bizarre shit. And somewhere in the scoop of all that I was just writing. I think it was just one of those times when your hand just kinds of starts leading you and maybe you have your things you think you want to say. And I think I also had this kind of jolt of confidence and enthusiasm because Boogie Nights had come out and it was successful and it was nothing better then that rush of somebody actually validating your work. It really is great! You know people might pretend like it doesn’t matter what people think but it’s kind of fucking really nice when you work so hard and people say: “That was job well done and that was really good!”. And if you are a writer and you are alone in your room which you spend a lot of times doing it’s like a good glass of water when somebody says good job, really good job. And out of that confidence I think I just wrote that movie and that’s sort of the best way I can describe what I was thinking at the time. A little bit of just sort of being blind and writing it’s just the best way to go.
Before you made Hard Eight I presume that this wasn’t the first script you wrote. How come you chose it to be your first one?
Yes I have only written maybe one or two other scripts that I didn’t really like that much and I liked this one and it seemed that I could do it. It seemed that I could make a movie which was small with only four characters in Reno, Nevada and that I could raise money for it. It was really all I had.
You had no choice!
Yeah but I really didn’t need any other choice. It was that movie that I wanted to make. I got very lucky on that movie just to start making it but I got in a lot of trouble when I made the movie. There were some producers that fired me actually after I… It was my movie. I mean I wrote it and directed it and then I found these guys to finance it and they were real criminals.
(Laughing)
I put the movie together. And they had all these ideas for cuts that I wouldn’t make. Some of them were actually good ideas but I was too arrogant to like see that they were good ideas and they were kind of dicks too. But they ended up taking movie away from me. It was like this amazing lesson very early on where I was hit fucking repeatedly over and over again and I fought and I desperately tried to get the movie back and it was just a long, long battle. And eventually I got the movie back but there was a period where I did get beat up enough and where I was swimming in the darkest depression and I thought my career is over and I will never get another chance. But I pulled my self out of it somehow and the only way that I could get things going again is if I go to work again. So I went and get Boogie Nights made and the amazing thing in doing that was I went to get Boogie Nights made and that became kind of easy, getting money for it and at the same time I reinvestigated the fight to get my first movie back. And I got that movie back so I was in pre-production of Boogie Night while I was re-cutting and finishing off my first movie. And it was kind of a this great lesson that I learned just having gone in this really deep and dark depression where I couldn’t get out of my fucking bed and the only thing that I could do is just get up and attack, attack and attack. And I am happy that that happened. So it was kind of a great first lesson on my first movie. And I was able to learn right then and there all kinds of mistakes that I have made. All that arrogance where I wasn’t seeing anything and where they were right and I was just to blind to notice it. But I also learned that I was right on a lot of stuff and I should have fought for what I believed. So it’s just kind of a great lesson on my first movie.
This is a second great tip of the season. Beat depression by breaking it!
Yeah! Absolutely!
What do you think about Cameron Crowe and his film making?
Yeah I like him.
Do you see any similarities between your work and his? Okay perhaps except Vanilla Sky which is a bit of a mess. Because it seems to me that you are in the way both passionate to make bizarre and kind of personal movies. And the two of you both made Tom Cruise act which is quite hard to do…
…Tom Cruise got a bad wrap around here. (Laughing)
(Laughing) Well for me this personal or emotional dimension connects the two of you.
Yeah, I know Cameron Crowe makes personal movies and I think that I do too and we both like music and we both like Tom Cruise (Laughing). And that’s about it.
(Laughing) Could you tell us which other films from other film makers do you like.
There is a movie tonight called “Noi Albinoi” that’s fucking amazing and that movie that I saw last night “In This World” by Michael Winterbottom is fucking incredible and I can’t wait to see “Dogville”. I just love everything that crazy fucking Danish fuck does. He’s pretty god damn good. I start swearing when I like things (Laughing). But I love Lars von Trier and those are the people that I like right now. Did that answer your question?
Yep. I think you are very popular generally in the world and your movies are very popular amongst public but you are more appreciated by juries on festivals in Europe than in America if I remember well.
Thank God! (Laughing)
(Laughing) Maybe when you will imagine let’s say your next project maybe you could transfer this project to Europe because maybe public here likes you more than Hollywood “big guys”. (Laughing).
You know what. I will stick around Hollywood for a little while longer and then when they get fucking seek of me and they kick me out I know I can always come here and start making movies here. But I actually do have a movie that I want to make and will take place in parts of Europe. But I don’t know…I think as a kid secretly deep down inside, if you are growing up in America, you know that the place that they really love movies is Europe and that they have a different appreciation for them. And European movies are sort of big influence…Well they were on me. So in a way we always secretly think: “My god I hope they like my movies in Europe.” So…someday, someday!
You have to drag Tom Cruise with you as well. (Laughing)
(Laughing)
When I think about all this and people watching you and your movies and on the other side people that are watching films that are nothing new, nothing revolutionary, everything that we have already seen before. It’s nothing like Lars Von Trier who is always making something up. He does things that nobody would expect to see in a feature film. And we also have all these guys inventing new things – a lot of steady cam and jerky camera. And we know somehow and everybody feels that this is really something new, something unique maybe because of this sense of sincerity. And I don’t know a proper answer to this and I don’t think you might have one but I think a new cinema is emerging with a lot of these young directors. Is it possible that this grows into really something big which will influence this mainstream…
No.
…Hollywood…
No.
…film…
No.
…making? (Laughing) And generally maybe America coming to Europe.
Yeah! No! It’s not. It’s way too fucking big. It’s not going to change! It has really made up his mind I think about how it wants to be and all that will happen it’s sort of the same as it ever was, you know. There’s going to be good stuff and there is going to be bad stuff. And you find the good stuff and you hold on to it and pray that everything will be good. And then nothing happens but then you should get another good thing. I’ve kind of given up thinking that the entire landscapes of movies will change and everything would be good. I mean you just look for the good things and don’t pay for the bad things and just keep going to film festivals where you can see the movies that you like. We are never going to be really that happy with Hollywood, you are never going to be so just find the things you like. It’s kind of like; you take what you can get.
But maybe there is a tribe of good people that think like that but it’s just hard to find them.
Really? (Laughing) I don’t know. I find when, I come to a festival or when I am making movies or when I am with people that I know, I fell pretty comfortable. You know, that I have found people that like good things and I stay away from the bad people who want to suck your blood.
(Laughing) Okay! Last question! Finally! J I have read that you have been doing some music videos. Do you like making them and are you going to make some more?
I like to make music videos. Sure. I like them. They are nice and they are fun and it’s kind of like making short films but I don’t have any plans to make some more. I really don’t have any time for it but maybe someday.
Okay I would just like to really thank you for this…not interview but a really long and cool conversation.
Yeah. No problem. Thank you and I will be back because Motovun Film Festival is one of the best festivals I have ever visited.
Monday, 23 June 2003
Interview: BAM Q&A
HOST: Welcome to the BAM cinemateque. We are three-quarters through our Village Voice series, which has been a tremendous success. And I’d really like to thank you all for coming here. I hope that you will join me in welcoming Paul Thomas Anderson, the wonderful director of tonight’s film, and Philip Seymour Hoffman. (Applause). Obviously everyone is really happy to have you both here at BAM. I’m sure that you all enjoyed the film. Remember, no flash photography during the Q&A. And I hope that everybody has a moment to sign up for our mailing list and get the calendar and all the information about the upcoming programs. And now, it is my privilege to introduce Dennis Lim, the critic from the Village Voice who is going to be moderating tonight’s discussion.
PT ANDERSON: (In A Spooky Voice) No flash photographyyyyyyy. (Pause) It’s ok. (Audience Laughs)
DENNIS LIM: Thank you all for coming. I don’t think these gentlemen need an introduction. Paul is the director of four features – one of which you’ve just seen, Punch-Drunk Love, also Magnolia, Boogie Nights and Sydney, also known as Hard Eight (Applause). And Philip Seymour Hoffman actually appears in all four films and also recently in films like Love Liza, Owning Mahony and on stage in plays like True West. I’m really glad they’re both here this evening. (Applause) I guess I’ll start out with the first question. If you could maybe start by talking about your working relationship with each other - - cause you’ve done four films and I know Philip played very different roles in each film. So can you talk about how you first came to know each other and how your working relationship has evolved over the years?
PTA: Well. I saw the Martin Brest movie, Scent of a Woman, which was actually on TV the other night. Watching the movie again was great because it reminded me of the moment when I first saw Phil. He did this weird crazy movement with his hand and I just thought, “God. That guy is so great. Soooo great. Such a great actor. I’d love to work with him someday.” When I went to make Hard Eight, there was a part [for Phil] and I just talked to him on the phone and arranged the deal with his agent. He came up to Reno. The day that I met him was the day we shot the scene. And then from meeting him we developed a friendship. The great thing about our friendship, for me, is to write a movie. To write the part for him in Boogie Nights. It’s nice because you’re really writing for somebody that you know. You’re not just writing for somebody that you see and meet in the movies. You’re now writing for somebody that…you’ve seen in the movie but somebody that you know a bit better and someone that you’d like to do something good for. Y’know. Work with. So then everything kinda worked from there.
PHILIP SEYMOUR HOFFMAN: The year before he called me about Hard Eight, I had seen…I was at Sundance for an afternoon and basically went to see this short film that a friend of mine was in. And the short film that my friend was in happened to be Paul’s short film. Paul was about 22-years old. Coffee and Cigarettes. It was a great short film. So about a year passed and I got a call from my manager saying this guy Paul Thomas Anderson wrote this film and he wants you to read it. I finished reading the screenplay and I immediately knew it was the same guy that had done the short. I just knew it. We just became friends. We’ve been more friends than anything. The good thing is that when he writes for me there is a certain knowledge he has of who I am that he’s trying to put there.
Q: I noticed one of the last names in the credits was Hermelin. I know some of the people at Associates In Science. So I was wondering why you chose to use one of the Hermelin sisters there. And also I’ve noticed lately that you’ve been dealing a lot with male inadequacy. Why do you choose to deal with that?
PTA: Um. I don’t know about male inadequacy. I don’t know anything about that. (Audience Laughs)
PSH: (Sarcastic) Nothing about that. Who’re they talking about?
PTA: I Don’t know. (Long pause) Hi. (Laughter) The Hermelin sisters. The name Hermelin, you actually mention Associates In Science and Associates In Science make posters. They actually worked on the Boogie Nights stuff.
Q: (Simultaneously) They did all the Boogie Nights stuff.
PTA: I know. They did Boogie Nights (Audience Laughs) But I was looking for sister. And it was actually pure coincidence the connection between the Hermelin sister and the people at Associates In Science. We were looking for seven sisters and my casting director came across… I’ve never gotten a straight answer on exactly how it all went down. Two of them were sisters and two of them were, I believe, nephews or cousins. So you have like four of the main sisters that are really connected and related and three are actors and found folk.
DL: Did the sister come first or the brothers
PTA: The sisters came first. The sisters came first and originally the part, the part of the four brothers, was written as two guys. Which I always knew was a little bit like, “I dunno about this. Two guys coming after the main character”. You’ve kinda been down that road. Phil and John [Reilly] were gonna play those parts. Something just wasn’t right about it. Phil and John always knew that and I knew that. We had actually even started shooting the movie and had no real solution to the problem. So I thought that I would go find some unknown actors. I really had a hard time finding actors to fill those parts. And I thought maybe we should go to Utah and find some local Utah actors.
DL: Why Utah?
PTA: That’s where Dean is from. I’d been to a town called Provo, Utah, which is a really bizarre place. You’ve never seen anything like Provo, Utah. It’s gay and it’s Mormon and there are Mexicans and they’re all racist a little bit. It’s weird. And that’s just…Provo is a good spot for a phone-sex place. My casting director came to me one day and she said, “Well I found this one guy”, then she showed me his picture and she said he’s got three crazy brothers that look bizarre and just like him. I thought it’d be so great to have the guy with seven sisters being chased by four blonde brothers. I thought it was a great concept. Almost like a fairy tale. Something really old-fashioned. It got to be like a myth story at that point.
Q: Hi. My name Stephen. I’m from Boston University. I just wrote my first short script that I wrote and I won this contest and I’m gonna be getting a bunch of money in the fall. I wanted to know if you had any advice for a first-time director?
PTA: How much money you got?
Q: I dunno. My parents are giving me like a hundred bucks.
PTA: Uh. You’re fucked. (Audience Laughs)
Q: I don’t have a budget yet. Any advice.
PTA: (Struggles For An Answer, Audience Laughs) Phil?
PSH: Oh God. (Laughs)
PTA: Get good actors. Y’know.
PSH: That’s a hard thing. You gotta get a bunch of people that also wanna make it. I mean that creatively. Then all of a sudden you have more than just your own head trying to figure out how you’re going to make it. Five peoples passionate about something is better than one.
PTA: I think that’s right. I do. Otherwise it’s like being on a baseball team by yourself. It’s not gonna be fun. You’re not gonna win. (Audience Laughs)
Q: I read in the LA times that after two weeks of shooting the film you scrapped it because you said you were making the same film. What exactly did you scrap.
PTA: Well. I remember that, too. It wasn’t exactly like the first two weeks were scrapped. Maybe it was like the first two or three weeks were really hard. There is still a lot that remains from the first two weeks. We actually started out trying to shoot the movie perfectly in order. The initial meeting of Adam and Emily we shot on one of the first mornings. The car crash was shot on the first day. That kinda stuff. Those scenes were great, but then there were other scenes that were not good. That were just bad. That were a combination of elements. I was working with some new crewmembers and was really sort of desperate to try and fuck myself up and do things differently for not only me but also everybody else around me. And that kind of ended up resulting in some good things, but just sort of made more trouble than it was really worth. I think I was just sort of nervous or undecided or just kind of…I’m not sure why exactly. I still haven’t figured it out, but it just took time to find footing. The nice thing was that most of the times previous to that, previous to this movie that I’ve made, you go to work and you know what you’re doing each day and you really have to be rigid. There is nothing about the scheduling of movies that is conducive to any kind of creative thinking. Just none of it allows you to actually fuck around, or scrap yesterday and say “God, that kinda sucked. Or that was really good and let’s keep doing that and change that”. It’s just the way that movies are normally scheduled does not allow for that. BUT, I think we’ve sort of done it enough and worked with the same crew enough. We sort of formulated a plan that allowed for that kind of stuff, but just really stole from people that I knew who make records. Making records is a much more creative environment. Fewer people. You can do it for longer stretches of time. Sometimes what it ends up being is that you indulge way too much. You don’t have a fire under your butt so you’re not kind of making decisions. You just have to balance that out and kind of make sure what’s right for you. I think we were taking advantage of the fact that we could screw around for a couple of weeks and find where we wanted to go with the movie and for Adam to get to know Emily. Maybe we were just sort of over-thinking things and kind of all nervous really is what it was. It all ended up really finding its footing and being wonderful. The thing about making the same movies is, for me, I just challenge myself to do something different each time. To not cover a scene the same way. Sometimes I found myself doing things just to do that and actually betraying what you were supposed to be doing, which is to tell a simple story. Once we got out of that mode, once I really got out of that mode, things were really nice. Really smooth sailing and great. It was weird to have a difficult time initially. I never really had that before. But good in a healthy way.
DL: Checking up on what you said about making the movie like a record. Music is a big part of all your films, especially this one. And I know Jon Brion gets involved in the process very early on. And you had some of the music before you actually shot.
PTA: That’s right.
DL: What did you tell him you wanted.
PTA: When I was writing it I talked to him on the phone and I was listening to a lot of Franti & Kesher stuff, which is tack piano stuff. I was listening to that and he sent me a lot of extra Franti & Kesher stuff that was really inspiring me. We had talked about doing a score that had a lot of percussive stuff in it that would sound almost industrial. Like that warehouse phase. Just sort like getting sounds out of that warehouse, but also to do real lush romance music. So we knew it was gonna be a mix of those two factors. And I knew that from the script that there would be this harmonium and it would be this five-note melody that Barry played. So it was important that Jon create whatever that five-note melody was. Sort of like those five-notes in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. (Mimics the Five-Notes From Close Encounters) You kind of have to have that before you go to shoot. So Jon had come up with that and had done percussive stuff in the movie that actually just ended up being really easy to shoot to. For me. You know. Tempo. We talked about tempo. Stuff like that. Then he’d go away and do stuff…
DL: There are even some scenes where the music is so loud it overlaps the dialogue.
PTA: Yeah. It’s Deliberate. Yeah. There used to be a rule. You go to the theatre and the mixers are like, “No! We won’t be able to hear the dialogue”. I don’t know if I subscribe to the theory that you have to hear every word. You feel that you’re going along for a ride and sometimes it’s kind of exciting when you miss a word. I always liked that on records when you couldn’t exactly hear a word. You’d then make up your own. Something like that. It’s important that the emotions are conveyed. Not every single detail of what characters are saying. It’s a dangerous thing, cause I know it can get on some people’s nerves. We did a little bit of it on Magnolia. I like it. I’m not against that.
Q: What did Robert Altman think of you using the song “He Needs Me”.
PTA: “He Needs Me” was in Popeye. I showed Robert Altman the movie and I sat behind him and I was watching him as I was watching the movie. Well, no. Before I showed him the movie I told him the song “He Needs Me” is in the film. He said, “Oh great”. He told me stories about Harry Nilsson and Malta and drugs and Harry Nilsson going absolutely crazy and threatening him with a gun and saying, “I’m gonna take all the music out”. So after all these crazy old Robert Altman drug stories and everything else, I was like, “Are you gonna be upset to hear ‘He Needs Me’”. And he wasn’t really sure. I think Popeye brought back flashbacks or bad memories to him. But when we watched the movie and “He Needs Me” comes on I saw his hand go (Starts Swaying His Hand, Audience Laughs). And he starts sort of conducting and I was like “Alright, everything is fine”. And I asked, “How’d you like the movie”. And he said, “Loved it. Loved it. Great. Great. Great.”
Q: This is a question for Mr. Hoffman. I was wondering whether you get more satisfaction out of making films or do you prefer the stage. And the other question is, I know you’ve directed some off-Broadway plays, do you plan on directing any films.
PSH: I don’t think I prefer. I think acting in theatre is kind of like a marathon and acting in film is kind of like a sprint. The difference is, in general terms, in both of those things you work different muscles. So I try not to preference. Usually when I’m working on one I miss the other. They just really compliment each other for me and they challenge me and they keep me on my toes and keep me humble. In theatre you can’t go back. In film you can, but you only have that day. And in regards to directing a film. Probably some day. I don’t think that’s going to be my primary thing ever. It’s something that I’ll do when I think I have enough knowledge about telling a story with a camera and lights and designs and stuff like that. Directing on stage…I understand that kind of storytelling. With a camera, I don’t know if I understand it the way that I’d like to. I don’t wanna just show up and do what the DP says. I’d rather be more collaborative and have my own ideas. So when I develop the confidence for it, maybe I will.
Q: There are a lot of subtle blends of sounds in the film. When did you get the idea of mixing sounds?
PTA: I don’t remember. I mean I just remember when I was writing it…I think where it came from is just when I was writing the movie I was thinking there would be…well I knew that the first scene in the movie was Barry hearing something off-camera and just how nice it would be to be able to sort of blend the sound effects and the music and kind of making like an experience movie. Like a hippie kind of movie. Really. So kind of like, the first scene he’s gonna hear something and that is where the movie will begin. Just lots of notes and things like good ideas and fucking it up with the sound and kind of coming at an audience with both barrels. We’d done some of that stuff in Magnolia in the very beginning of the movie with some bizarre sound design stuff. It’ just really fun and exciting to do and made sense. I was keeping on with those ideas that seemed to fit the story and kind of to help electrify it all up a little bit. A nice experience of making the movie and editing the movie and working with Pro Tools and working with the Avid and working with Jon Brion in the next room and sort of get a good group of people together. That becomes a real fun part of the job is making all the sound and doing all that kind of stuff and you’re still blending it into the work. You’re still continuing to create art after the movie is done. You go to make a movie, use all of your ammunition.
Q: Did the Jeremy Blake artwork come before or after you shot the movie?
PTA: It came later. I had written that there would be some kind of color. Bursts of color. I didn’t know what it was exactly. I didn’t know. After we finished shooting the first chunk of the movie, we actually ended up shooting two chunks, and after the first chunk was shot I saw his work at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and called him up and he came to Los Angeles and had him in our studio. We had this great studio where we set everything up. He saw the movie. All I had done was put red, white, blue and green flashes as placeholders for him. We talked for a while and he did ten or fifteen different pieces a day and it was just sort of a great thing. I ended up with a lot more than I thought I would get.
Q: Were you ever conscious of trying to make any social commentary?
PTA: Social commentary? For this movie? (Passive) I don’t know. I mean…like what? (Audience Laughs)
Q: Like we live in a crazy society. Maybe it’s the character’s environment that makes him so crazy…
PTA: I don’t think too much about that stuff. I think you could end up being like Oliver Stone and think too much about the stuff you make. To me, it’s first and foremost from the character. From Barry’s stomach and from who he is and the situation that he’s in. Someone I can relate to. Anything that comes out of that, those are the discoveries that I make after writing the movie. I never have a real big social picture in my mind. I just feel like it would be an Oliver Stone movie. Y’know. Like, I really gotta say something about man versus machine. I really gotta get to the bottom of that (Audience Laughs). I dunno. I mean, I think I know I was obviously kind of lonely and horny and called a phone sex-line. Like. All right. Start there. (Audience Laughs).
Q: How do you usually begin? Do you begin with a character? Plot ideas. Musical elements?
PTA: Yeah (Laughter) You can never really remember. I can never really remember. I start out writing lists. Lists of actors that I would like to be in the movie or maybe I have a title, or just something that you’re reading sparks you or something that you’ve seen, or whatever it is. With this movie it was a great story that I knew about, I knew a girl that did phone sex and she told me other girls that she worked with would call guys back and bribe them. And that’s like in the category of, ok, thinking of ideas for movies. That’s a great plot idea. That could really get a ball rolling. That alone is a sterile plot. With this movie, it was mainly about writing for Adam. Wanting to make a movie with him. Wanting to make a movie that was 90-minutes. Wanting to make a movie that was a love story. A real romance story. Real pop. That went to Hawaii (Laughter). It’s not a very good answer but…just one thing turns into another and you turn around and there’s 90-pages and you’re just fucking happy you got there. Like. Fuck. I got 90-pages. That’s good. Now let me read it. (Smiles). I guess we’ll make it (Laughter).
DL: You said you’ve had, like MGM-musicals in mind. Jacques Tati films. Did you have any other love stories in mind? Any other romantic comedies that sort of dump the anxiety and terror of romance.
PTA: No. I probably had a reaction to not seeing anything good in romantic movies lately. I was sort of working more from a place of anger, like, “If I fucking see one more of these fucking movies”. Y’know, like these supposed romantic-comedies. Maybe it was that dirty part of me saying, “I’ll fucking show them.” (Laughs) There’s maybe that feeling, but a good source of inspiration was the Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers movies. Those were musicals, but those are real love stories. Real love stories. Those were make-out movies. Those were good movies to kiss by.
DL: Do you think this is a good make-out movie?
PTA: This one? I hope so (Laughter). It was meant to be. I don’t think it ended up that way.
DL: Did it change much, in terms of you writing it and…
PTA: A lot. More than anything I’ve ever done. It changed a lot. Especially the back-half. But that was the idea going in, to not have a super-super plan. To kind of be a little bit more loose about it, without it seeming like it was loose. Not like, “We’re just gonna not know what we’re shooting today and do it handheld.” It wasn’t like that. Something that I learned early on was…I was trying to drag Adam through the movie for a little while and you just sort of realize that the movie has to go to the movie star. Originally, Adam didn’t go to see Phil. There was a different showdown where Phil came to Los Angeles. So we shot a whole ten-minute scene where Phil’s character comes down to find Adam’s character and smashes his harmonium. A lot of the same dialogue that we have is still in the scene, but we put together enough of the movie where we just felt like the scene will be no good. This guy has gotta get out of his house and go to Utah and kick some ass…
DL: Phil, can you talk a little about this role. Coming from Magnolia. How was it to go against Adam Sandler and try to one-up him.
PSH: I think that ultimately he one-ups me. I remember we did shoot that scene that Paul mentions. We did it. We got it, but there was something about it. I didn’t know we were going to reshoot it till Paul called me saying we’re going to redo it, but I understood pretty quickly why we had to. I was like, yeah, he should be the one acting up on me. He should be the one winning back the girl. He’s gotta go get rid of his demons. He’s gotta face his dark side. So I kind of look at my part in the film as, for lack of a less pretentious word, a mythical type of character. It’s like a part of a person. It’s like I’m part of him and I’m there saying one thing and he’s gotta get rid of me. Whether Paul sees that or not is not important to me as an actor. I kind of understood that.
Q: Why make a 90-minute movie?
PTA: Well, I think there’s a reason why most good movies, movies that I love, are 90-minutes long. That’s a really good length for a certain kind of movie. Especially a romantic comedy with Adam Sandler and Emily Watson and I think that’s a good length. It works. There’s a reason why good pop songs are 2 ½ or 3-minutes. They fit. It’s a great format. And it’s a struggle. I think Magnolia…that’s cancer. All that stuff, it’s great as a 3-hour movie. 90-minutes for cancer doesn’t seem right. (Laughter) That’s really it. And also, I love watching Friday Night movies. I wanted to try and make a Friday night movie. 90-minutes is a great length. You’ve been there and done that 3-hour movie. I don’t wanna do that again. I do, but I didn’t need to do it again right away.
Q: What’s next for both you guys?
PSH: I’m doing this very hard play right now. Tomorrow is next for me (Laughter). I don’t have anything planned after this. But I have my theatre company, and we’ve got productions opening to the public this year, so I’ll be producing them. I’m okay right now.
PTA: I’m feeding Phil. I’m writing a movie. Trying to figure out a movie I’ve been working on for three years. Three or four years. Just writing and fucking-off, really.
Q: Um. Writing. Are you writing more or less since you’ve achieved success.
PTA: The same. The same. About.
Q: Is it less challenging or more challenging.
PTA: The same (Laughter). Y’know. Things go up and things go down and it’s still a mess. I’m working on something that I’ve been working on for three years and I’m like, “God. This is fucking rough.” It’s hard to get through it and everything else. When I wrote Boogie Nights for the first time, I was nineteen or twenty, I wrote it as a completely different thing. I wrote as a fictional documentary, trying to rip off Spinal Tap. You sort outgrow that and a few years later you’re like, well, ok, it’s kind of corny to do just that. When I was twenty-six or twenty-seven, four or five years later, I wrote it more as a traditional screenplay. So it’s like, wow, y’know. Stuff takes time. And also, just different paths that your life takes. I’m older now and I have different interests besides movies, so much so…
PSH:…pornography (Laughter).
PTA: You like porno as much as I do. (Laughter)
Q: What’d you do with all the pudding after the movie?
PTA: We gave it to the Salvation Army. (Silence) Awwww. (Laughter). No, y’know. We weren’t that sweet. There was a whole sequence in the movie where we shot Emily Watson giving the pudding over, because it’s based on a real guy and he bought all the pudding and he took the pudding tops off, but the pudding was still intact and he donated it to the Salvation Army. So we shot this whole sequence where Emily did that for Adam. This little whole other long subplot that half got shot. It ended up in the Salvation Army and had been eaten by all these guys in the scene.
Q: Is this in the DVD’s deleted scenes.
PTA: No, it’s not.
DL: The DVD is out tomorrow. There are two deleted scenes.
PTA: Yeah. One is the sisters. All seven sisters calling him while he’s at work. And then an alternate version of when the brothers abduct him and take that money from him in that parking lot. Just a completely different version of the scene. We did a lot of that in this movie. Just shoot the scene one way and have a completely alternate version with different dialogue. Same location, but different dialogue.
DL: It’s a great package. It also has this short film called Blossoms and Blood.
PTA: Yeah. It’s good.
Q: How was your experience working with Revolution studios?
PTA: Great. Really great. It’s nice, cause they have a relationship with Adam Sandler. New Line was in a bit of disarray the moment we went to go make the movie, so we ended up going to Joe Roth’s company.
Q: Which Adam Sandler film made you go, “This is my guy”.
PTA: Uh, Happy Gilmore and Big Daddy. The Wedding Singer, I loved. I’m not a big Waterboy fan. Those are his movies that I really love.
DL: I think we have time for a couple of more.
PTA: Keep going. There’s a lot more. If we can maybe go faster…get everybody in.
Q: The scene after Barry punches the wall in his office you show his knuckles, and did I imagine that something is written on it…
PTA: It says “LOVE”. I dunno. I thought it was a good idea. Maybe it was kind of corny. (Laughter). It’s not a reference, because I know it was in Night of the Hunter. The make-up girl was doing it and she’s like, “I keep trying to do continuity about it”. And you get so sick of continuity that it’s easier to come up with good ideas. I was like, I got a great idea. Just fucking (Mimics Writing) write LOVE. I thought it was a good idea. And then I was like, that was in Night of the Hunter and that was in Do the Right Thing and is this gonna be corny. Maybe it’s kinda corny but we decided to do it and leave it in but maybe make it go by real fast. If you liked it…good.
Q: What do I need to do to get involved in your next picture? (Laughter)
PTA: Phil? (Laughter) Phil made his way into all my movies. What do you do?
Q: I’m working temp jobs right now.
PSH: Oh boy. Why is everyone looking at me? (Laughter). Uh…
PTA: I’m not making a movie, so I don’t have a job. (Pause) But when I do…(Laughter)
PSH: Well what would you want to do on a movie?
Q: I’d be willing to start as a lowly PA and work my way up.
PSH: To do something like that, on any film…just become Colombo and find out when something is gonna get shot. Just show up everyday at a Production Office and ask if they need a PA.
PTA: Somebody always needs a PA.
Q: Where were Barry’s parents? Why didn’t you put them in?
PTA: I never really made up my mind about the parents. It just seemed to not have a place. It would seem like another movie, even to include them in the party scene. Yeah, it just seemed like another movie. I wasn’t really sure if they were around or they died or they passed away. Then you gotta cast parents and you have to think about the dynamic between the sisters, when all I wanted to do was seven sisters and him.
Q: This really isn’t Punch-Drunk Love related, but Phil, could you do me a favor and said “I’m a fucking idiot” nine times? (Laughter)
PSH: Wow. No. Gosh. Sorry. Not today.
Q: Uh. I don’t wanna sound like a crazy rabid fan or anything…but um (Laughter).
PSH: You already did. (Laughter).
Q: This is the fifth time I’ve seen this movie in the theatres and I know that tomorrow I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna buy the DVD and I’m just gonna, like, watch it. And I’m just gonna be so amazed. 10-minutes into this movie I turned to my friend here and I’m like, my face just isn’t big enough to like have this grin on, y’know. And I’m just…I dunno. How do you feel about, both of you even, how do you feel about these crazy people that just sit here and watch your movies and are just like, “I Can’t believe it. I can’t believe they just fuckin’, like, pulled it off. They just made everything work and everything is just so perfect that I gotta see it four more times”.
PTA: Fucking great (Applause). Really. There is nothing more bizarre, kind of like this weird head-fuck, when somebody says I really liked your movie. You just feel like, “What the fuck?” I remember when we first showed this movie, it was the best, absolutely the best experience. In Cannes. In this huge auditorium. And it’s just so surreal when you show your work to an audience for the first time and laugh and get scared…to feel like you communicated and you did something well. It’s an amazing feeling. Amazing feeling. And I’m glad that you feel that way. Really glad you feel that way.
PSH: There’s always somebody else that doesn’t think that way, too. (Laughter)
Q: The cinematography is really gorgeous. And it feels kind of personal…flairs of light. I was hoping you could talk about your relationship with the DP.
PTA: Robert Elswit is the DP. He shot all my movies. He’s a great photographer. We’ve worked together for a long time now and we’re very different. So it’s a great collaboration. Robert, he’s an older guy. He’s been around for a long time and he can be more traditional than I can. Sometimes we’re sort of like an old married couple. I don’t like what his taste is, but I think he’s right. Or he doesn’t like what my taste is and we just fight about it a lot. A lot of arguments. But it ends up really just being a nice working relationship where you feel like you sort of look at each other and you really respect that person’s take or eye on something or their natural instinct. Some days I’ll walk out and let Robert find his groove and let him go to work and there are other days where he’ll just walk away and let me go to work. I’m not sure. It’s just that feeling of collaborating and working with someone whose company you enjoy.
PSH: Robert Elswit is the best. He really is. Best guy. I mean, that’s all I wanna say. (Laughs)
PTA: I hope I described it well. It’s just hard to describe that relationship. We really are like a weird married couple. Fight a lot…I dunno.
PSH: The worst working environments, I think, are passive-aggressive environments where everyone is trying to avoid hurting each other. It doesn’t mean that you gotta be bluntly honest every minute of the day. I think Paul, from observing it and also our relationship and his relationship with other people over the years, the best relationships are the honest ones. The ones where ultimately, at the end of the day, you care about that person in your life. So you care to be as honest as you can be and then not worry so much about hurting someones feelings all the time. You just wanna make good work. We might fight some times, we might laugh some times, we might hate each other some times, love each other…at the end of the day you get out on the other side and you’re still close.
DL: That should wrap it up. Thank you both. (Applause)
-Copyright 2003 by MovieNavigator.org
Thursday, 22 May 2003
Interview: "Punch-Drunk Helmer Says DVD Gives Movie New Life"
Video Store Magazine, Written By Joan Villa
May 22nd, 2003
When the surreal and oddly involving Punch-Drunk Love arrives next month, DVD special features will give viewers a glimpse behind the scenes of first-time Golden Globe nominee Adam Sandler’s offbeat characterization of a man searching for love.
The DVD will also explore the spare but romantic style of writer/director Paul Thomas Anderson, who also helmed the critically acclaimed Boogie Nights and Magnolia.
The special edition two-disc Superbit DVD of the Revolution Studios film is due June 24 from Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment at $28.96. It contains deleted scenes, a “Blossoms and Blood” featurette, a photo montage, 12 Internet teasers, a theatrical trailer, scene selections and 5.1 sound. It is presented in widescreen.
All those disc features mean “a second lease on life,” said Anderson in an online interview.
“It doesn’t affect how I would make the movie, but it certainly gets you going when you realize it’s going to be on a shelf for a lot longer than it was ever in the movie theaters,” he said.
“It inspires me to put my best foot forward in that regard in terms of transfer, packaging, etc.”
Anderson himself seems to realize that the film’s style is hard to capture in words, other than to advise retailers to tell customers, “It’s better than the film they just returned.”
He ultimately settles on staccato, but evocative words that tie together his goals for the film: “focus, color, lovely and romantic, to the point, pop, a hippie movie, really.”
In Punch-Drunk Love, Anderson uses color, an unblinking visual style and poignant background songs to juxtapose the blossoming of new love amid real-world work and family frustrations. It’s often gripping because the viewer is caught off-guard, never quite sure how the story will unfold or how to react to Sandler’s alternating moods.
When deciding which special features to include, Anderson said he seeks “a combination of what’s been lurking beneath the surface that helps complement the movie but doesn’t distract or deconstruct.”
That goes for the present disc as well. “On this movie, we had tons of extra music and artwork, and it was what we we’re excited about showing off and preserving,” he added.
Punch-Drunk Love also stars Emily Watson and Philip Seymour Hoffman.
May 22nd, 2003
When the surreal and oddly involving Punch-Drunk Love arrives next month, DVD special features will give viewers a glimpse behind the scenes of first-time Golden Globe nominee Adam Sandler’s offbeat characterization of a man searching for love.
The DVD will also explore the spare but romantic style of writer/director Paul Thomas Anderson, who also helmed the critically acclaimed Boogie Nights and Magnolia.
The special edition two-disc Superbit DVD of the Revolution Studios film is due June 24 from Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment at $28.96. It contains deleted scenes, a “Blossoms and Blood” featurette, a photo montage, 12 Internet teasers, a theatrical trailer, scene selections and 5.1 sound. It is presented in widescreen.
All those disc features mean “a second lease on life,” said Anderson in an online interview.
“It doesn’t affect how I would make the movie, but it certainly gets you going when you realize it’s going to be on a shelf for a lot longer than it was ever in the movie theaters,” he said.
“It inspires me to put my best foot forward in that regard in terms of transfer, packaging, etc.”
Anderson himself seems to realize that the film’s style is hard to capture in words, other than to advise retailers to tell customers, “It’s better than the film they just returned.”
He ultimately settles on staccato, but evocative words that tie together his goals for the film: “focus, color, lovely and romantic, to the point, pop, a hippie movie, really.”
In Punch-Drunk Love, Anderson uses color, an unblinking visual style and poignant background songs to juxtapose the blossoming of new love amid real-world work and family frustrations. It’s often gripping because the viewer is caught off-guard, never quite sure how the story will unfold or how to react to Sandler’s alternating moods.
When deciding which special features to include, Anderson said he seeks “a combination of what’s been lurking beneath the surface that helps complement the movie but doesn’t distract or deconstruct.”
That goes for the present disc as well. “On this movie, we had tons of extra music and artwork, and it was what we we’re excited about showing off and preserving,” he added.
Punch-Drunk Love also stars Emily Watson and Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Sunday, 20 April 2003
Interview: Behind The Scenes With Robert Elswit
Background
Adam Sandler and the French New Wave are not often discussed in the same breath, but according to cinematographer Robert Elswit, they both figure in his new collaboration with director Paul Thomas Anderson. Elswit explains that Anderson's latest feature Punch-Drunk Love, which stars Sandler and Emily Watson, takes some of its visual cues from the early color films of nouvelle vague director Jean-Luc Godard. That is not to say that this new Anderson release attempts the heavily intellectual approach Godard was known for. Punch-Drunk Love, promises to be lighter and more straightforward than anything Godard, or even Anderson, has done in the past.
Elswit, who shot all three of Anderson's previous features, explains that the content of the film is more like an early Peter Sellers comedy centered on a main character that we love despite his extensive eccentricity. But the inspiration for the look, he adds, came from Godard's early color films, particularly A Woman is a Woman starring Jean Paul Belmondo, Jean-Claude Brialy, and Anna Karina.
Raul Coutard shot many of those early films, including Woman. "[He] created interiors that had a very unique look for that era," says Elswit. "In A Woman is a Woman, Jean-Claude Brialy wears this electric-blue suit and it stands out in these rooms with white walls. This was kind of a starting point for the look of this movie. Paul wanted to find a way of realizing these clean white walls and then having just one or two main colors. The costume designer Mark Bridges came up with this blue outfit for Adam Sandler then a few very specific colors for what Emily Watson wears. The rest of the design is a kind of monochromatic version of one tone."
Goals & Challenges
Early on, Elswit and Anderson decided Fuji 125T would best render the palette they were after. "It's a contrasty stock," says Elswit. "You have to fill it a lot. When you light, the set doesn't look right to the eye or on the monitor. I generally rely on a one-degree spot meter made by a company in Vermont called Zone VI. It's unbelievably accurate. With that meter I can essentially do a one-light work print and be very consistent throughout."
Elswit shot Punch-Drunk Love with Panavision cameras (primarily older Panaflex models) and Primo anamorphic lenses—0, 50, 75, 100, and 180. He set the aperture as wide as he was comfortable going in an anamorphic show—between T 2.8 to just under T 4. Even so, interiors still required quite a lot of light for exposure, as well as a great deal of control because of the stock's inherently high contrast. This was particularly challenging because Elswit, like Coutard in 1960s Paris, had to tailor his lighting for location shooting.
Coutard, Elswit explains, built lighting rigs that allowed him to encircle the interior of a Parisian apartment with Photofloods all aimed at the ceiling, which had been rigged with aluminum foil. The bounced light hitting the actors in the room provided a soft feel to the images while bringing the overall light level up enough to almost match the generally overcast view outside the windows. For Elswit to approximate this effect in Southern California's notoriously sunny San Fernando Valley, he needed instruments far more powerful than Photofloods. "You always want big lights far away," he says. "The hard part in locations is it's big lights really close. So part of the trick is finding a place to put them."
A lot of Punch-Drunk Love, takes place in an industrial strip mall where Sandler's character runs an import/export company of cheesy novelty items. The location is one of countless non-descript, industrial-looking areas that exist throughout the San Fernando Valley. The 100x180-foot warehouse space consists of a long concrete building where Sandler's character keeps an office. The entire interior was painted white, and glass walls within the massive space defined his office. There are giant doors leading outside the warehouse to reveal a giant, white cinder block wall. "The hardest thing," Elswit recalls, "was getting the exposure level of the office bright enough and still feeling like it's natural light."
The design suggested an overhead fluorescent light fixture in the office, but instead of a real fluorescent fixture that could never have approached the exterior levels, Elswit used a dozen 6k Pars aimed at a sheet of bleached bounce light down on Sandler's desk. "We had more lights in there than I've had in almost anything I've ever shot," Elswit says. "That gigantic amount of light let us balance—not quite perfectly—the exterior. At least it was close enough that you could get a nice full exposure inside the office and have it fall off somewhere toward the back of the warehouse and still have the outside be only a stop and a half overexposed."
In scenes where the lights are all daylight-balanced, Elswit debated whether or not to use an 85 filter. "You always get different points of view from the lab people," he says. "Some tell you to always use an 85, others say to make the adjustment in timing. Paul just said, 'I don't like filters. Let's not use any.' Now, with Panavision, you put your 85 filter in back, so it's not even a real filter. But Paul just didn't want to use any filters so we didn't and the lab was, in fact, able to make the necessary adjustments in the timing."
The effect of matching interior and exterior exposure, however, was less than seamless, Elswit admits. But Anderson, who is open to the unusual and unpolished, had Elswit alter the aperture in the middle of a shot if a character walked from a really bright exterior to the interior or vice versa. The effect, not unlike what happens when someone takes their auto-iris home video camera from one kind of lighting condition to another, is not something Elswit would push for himself. But he has worked with Anderson long enough, and he respects his vision to the point that he went with it.
"Of course, we've done f/stop pulls on other movies," he says, "but generally you try to be subtle about it. We came up with the idea of not trying to hide them here. We thought, 'Let's have somebody walk in from a bright exterior and, while they're standing there, go from an f/11 to an f/4 and just see the character and the background change so that it's part of the film.' It was always in a transitional moment. It was never in the middle of a piece of dialog or something like that, but there's no attempt made to conceal it."
In this way, too, Anderson's approach resembles that of Godard, whose films gleefully break all cinematic conventions—though not for the Brechtian, artifice-exposing motifs attributed to the Parisian intellectual. "Paul's esthetic," Elswit explains, "is to say, 'Let's try this, it might be neat.' If accidents happen, we don't turn the camera off. There are no marks for actors. He wants to rehearse on film, which puts a particular strain on camera assistants, but he knows there's a certain magic when the actors have that freedom and are doing a scene for the first time.
"The hard thing for a cameraman," Elswit continues, "is that something that can serve the movie isn't always the thing that impresses you as a cinematographer or your cinematographer buddies. But Paul has very definite ideas about what he wants and it can be really freeing sometimes to just do things that you would normally reject. It can keep the whole process of filmmaking fresh."
At one point Sandler's character is being followed by the Steadicam as he talks on the phone. During a take, the front of the camera bumped into a table and knocked the camera briefly, causing the shot to jump from Sandler to an image of an out-of-focus piece of the set and then quickly re-adjust. "Most directors would probably not even print that take," says Elswit, "but Paul loved the effect and wanted to do it again. So we did more takes and right at the same point in the dialog, I'd sort of smack the front of the matte box to re-create the look." Though a final cut wasn't completed by press time, Elswit believes the shot, for which no other coverage exists, will remain in the final film.
The resemblance to Godard ends, says Elswit, with the look and the occasional convention-bashing effect. "I don't know if Godard ever involves you emotionally in a movie, and Paul is all about emotion," he says. "So much of Godard is about a kind of cool irony. Paul's the smartest guy in the world, but when it comes to his work there's not an ironic bone in his body."
Adam Sandler and the French New Wave are not often discussed in the same breath, but according to cinematographer Robert Elswit, they both figure in his new collaboration with director Paul Thomas Anderson. Elswit explains that Anderson's latest feature Punch-Drunk Love, which stars Sandler and Emily Watson, takes some of its visual cues from the early color films of nouvelle vague director Jean-Luc Godard. That is not to say that this new Anderson release attempts the heavily intellectual approach Godard was known for. Punch-Drunk Love, promises to be lighter and more straightforward than anything Godard, or even Anderson, has done in the past.
Elswit, who shot all three of Anderson's previous features, explains that the content of the film is more like an early Peter Sellers comedy centered on a main character that we love despite his extensive eccentricity. But the inspiration for the look, he adds, came from Godard's early color films, particularly A Woman is a Woman starring Jean Paul Belmondo, Jean-Claude Brialy, and Anna Karina.
Raul Coutard shot many of those early films, including Woman. "[He] created interiors that had a very unique look for that era," says Elswit. "In A Woman is a Woman, Jean-Claude Brialy wears this electric-blue suit and it stands out in these rooms with white walls. This was kind of a starting point for the look of this movie. Paul wanted to find a way of realizing these clean white walls and then having just one or two main colors. The costume designer Mark Bridges came up with this blue outfit for Adam Sandler then a few very specific colors for what Emily Watson wears. The rest of the design is a kind of monochromatic version of one tone."
Goals & Challenges
Early on, Elswit and Anderson decided Fuji 125T would best render the palette they were after. "It's a contrasty stock," says Elswit. "You have to fill it a lot. When you light, the set doesn't look right to the eye or on the monitor. I generally rely on a one-degree spot meter made by a company in Vermont called Zone VI. It's unbelievably accurate. With that meter I can essentially do a one-light work print and be very consistent throughout."
Elswit shot Punch-Drunk Love with Panavision cameras (primarily older Panaflex models) and Primo anamorphic lenses—0, 50, 75, 100, and 180. He set the aperture as wide as he was comfortable going in an anamorphic show—between T 2.8 to just under T 4. Even so, interiors still required quite a lot of light for exposure, as well as a great deal of control because of the stock's inherently high contrast. This was particularly challenging because Elswit, like Coutard in 1960s Paris, had to tailor his lighting for location shooting.
Coutard, Elswit explains, built lighting rigs that allowed him to encircle the interior of a Parisian apartment with Photofloods all aimed at the ceiling, which had been rigged with aluminum foil. The bounced light hitting the actors in the room provided a soft feel to the images while bringing the overall light level up enough to almost match the generally overcast view outside the windows. For Elswit to approximate this effect in Southern California's notoriously sunny San Fernando Valley, he needed instruments far more powerful than Photofloods. "You always want big lights far away," he says. "The hard part in locations is it's big lights really close. So part of the trick is finding a place to put them."
A lot of Punch-Drunk Love, takes place in an industrial strip mall where Sandler's character runs an import/export company of cheesy novelty items. The location is one of countless non-descript, industrial-looking areas that exist throughout the San Fernando Valley. The 100x180-foot warehouse space consists of a long concrete building where Sandler's character keeps an office. The entire interior was painted white, and glass walls within the massive space defined his office. There are giant doors leading outside the warehouse to reveal a giant, white cinder block wall. "The hardest thing," Elswit recalls, "was getting the exposure level of the office bright enough and still feeling like it's natural light."
The design suggested an overhead fluorescent light fixture in the office, but instead of a real fluorescent fixture that could never have approached the exterior levels, Elswit used a dozen 6k Pars aimed at a sheet of bleached bounce light down on Sandler's desk. "We had more lights in there than I've had in almost anything I've ever shot," Elswit says. "That gigantic amount of light let us balance—not quite perfectly—the exterior. At least it was close enough that you could get a nice full exposure inside the office and have it fall off somewhere toward the back of the warehouse and still have the outside be only a stop and a half overexposed."
In scenes where the lights are all daylight-balanced, Elswit debated whether or not to use an 85 filter. "You always get different points of view from the lab people," he says. "Some tell you to always use an 85, others say to make the adjustment in timing. Paul just said, 'I don't like filters. Let's not use any.' Now, with Panavision, you put your 85 filter in back, so it's not even a real filter. But Paul just didn't want to use any filters so we didn't and the lab was, in fact, able to make the necessary adjustments in the timing."
The effect of matching interior and exterior exposure, however, was less than seamless, Elswit admits. But Anderson, who is open to the unusual and unpolished, had Elswit alter the aperture in the middle of a shot if a character walked from a really bright exterior to the interior or vice versa. The effect, not unlike what happens when someone takes their auto-iris home video camera from one kind of lighting condition to another, is not something Elswit would push for himself. But he has worked with Anderson long enough, and he respects his vision to the point that he went with it.
"Of course, we've done f/stop pulls on other movies," he says, "but generally you try to be subtle about it. We came up with the idea of not trying to hide them here. We thought, 'Let's have somebody walk in from a bright exterior and, while they're standing there, go from an f/11 to an f/4 and just see the character and the background change so that it's part of the film.' It was always in a transitional moment. It was never in the middle of a piece of dialog or something like that, but there's no attempt made to conceal it."
In this way, too, Anderson's approach resembles that of Godard, whose films gleefully break all cinematic conventions—though not for the Brechtian, artifice-exposing motifs attributed to the Parisian intellectual. "Paul's esthetic," Elswit explains, "is to say, 'Let's try this, it might be neat.' If accidents happen, we don't turn the camera off. There are no marks for actors. He wants to rehearse on film, which puts a particular strain on camera assistants, but he knows there's a certain magic when the actors have that freedom and are doing a scene for the first time.
"The hard thing for a cameraman," Elswit continues, "is that something that can serve the movie isn't always the thing that impresses you as a cinematographer or your cinematographer buddies. But Paul has very definite ideas about what he wants and it can be really freeing sometimes to just do things that you would normally reject. It can keep the whole process of filmmaking fresh."
At one point Sandler's character is being followed by the Steadicam as he talks on the phone. During a take, the front of the camera bumped into a table and knocked the camera briefly, causing the shot to jump from Sandler to an image of an out-of-focus piece of the set and then quickly re-adjust. "Most directors would probably not even print that take," says Elswit, "but Paul loved the effect and wanted to do it again. So we did more takes and right at the same point in the dialog, I'd sort of smack the front of the matte box to re-create the look." Though a final cut wasn't completed by press time, Elswit believes the shot, for which no other coverage exists, will remain in the final film.
The resemblance to Godard ends, says Elswit, with the look and the occasional convention-bashing effect. "I don't know if Godard ever involves you emotionally in a movie, and Paul is all about emotion," he says. "So much of Godard is about a kind of cool irony. Paul's the smartest guy in the world, but when it comes to his work there's not an ironic bone in his body."